Pay parity for armed forces a difficult task: Govt

Recent Posts

• Consolidated instructions proposed for reservation
• Govt introduces low cost tablet Computer
• Need for revising CGEGIS (Group Insurance)
• Cadre Restructuring of Central Secretariat Services (CSS)
• How to add New Rupee Font in your computer
• LIC leads in NPS
• Dynamic Periodic Table-A gift for Students and Teachers
• Clarification on reimbursement of LTC-80 Fare

206 Responses to “Pay parity for armed forces a difficult task: Govt”

1. 

   Danny said on Sunday, November 23, 2008, 18:03

   When it comes to cornering status and benefits, the babujis (so called elite people tribe) raise their hand and when things go out of hand in the country due to their inefficiency, they again raise their hands……..CALL THE ARMY. These corrupt and inefficient babujis cant have the cake and eat it too.

   Reply
2. 

   adithyan said on Sunday, November 23, 2008, 19:08

   Sir,

   The exercise of “pay commission” taking two or more years to give a report by which time the costs have escalated is an eye wash and whatever is doctored by the finance ministry is given a shape after lapse of two years. In fact, the hike given relates to year 2000 and by 2006 the money value has depreciated. The gainers in the game is only politicians who have many routes of income as recent events have demonstrated even in the case of confidence vote.

   Even god cannot save this country since the government will be having a clandestine clause in the rules to imprison HIM also branding as a terrorist only to retain power

   Reply
3. 

   chandy said on Sunday, November 23, 2008, 19:11

   The concerned bureaucrats have purposely let down the armed forces. Their intentions were very clear when they did not permit a member from AF in the pay commission and COS in spite of it being the largest service. Further approval of cabinet was obtained without even showing the AF recommendations to the chiefs. Annomalis (07 in total) were further created in the notification to the extent that even the rank pay definition was changed.

   Formula for deciding 6 CPC grade is simple. See what you got in 5 CPC. Then across board give same pay band to all whether it is pb3 or pb4. If in self created doubt over rank pay then see scales of 1-5 CPC and get the answer.

   The problem is that you want to be unfair and play dirty. I do not want to believe that you are incapable and not worthy of the high post you hold but at this level you ought to set high standards of honesty and fair play. How can GOM arrive at a decision when inputs given by you (rank pay) are manipulated.

   Please rise above all pettiness and embrace fair play and honesty. It will make you happy and contented in the long run.

   Reply
4. 

   Karan said on Sunday, November 23, 2008, 19:24

   “It is very difficult when people feel that this chap has got more than me…that feeling is there. So, to maintain that kind of balance…. it is very difficult,” . It is very difficult to maintain parity when the one, who is made to ensure parity, is highly incompetent and has vested interest & bias. The whole exercise of CoS commitee started because of the anguish of armed forces, but in the end one anomaly is increased to four anomalies, while the opportunity was smartly used by the vested interests to improve their scales indiscriminately disturbing the historical equations of parity. The parity issues were ‘unintentional mistake’ of 6 cpc, and correcting that mistake is not at all difficult had the issue been handled in its correct perspective without any bias. Had the task been outsourced to metric failed Group D employees they would have made a better (a correct) decision than this CoS. Because they do not have a bias that this CoS had and also because the issue is actually simple. It is an example of disgusting leadership and utter disregard to the accountability. Thumps down to you Mr.KMC.

   Reply
5. 

   Joseph said on Sunday, November 23, 2008, 19:27

   I agree with Chandy. Why don’t we accept that we have made a mistake and rise above this petty politics. It has destroyed our so called togetherness and made nonsense of our utterances. Why did he not admit that there was a mistake in the system and now we try to cover it up with stupid discoveries of rank pay. whom are we fooling. This is India in 2008. Or do we like to walk with our socks down.

   Reply
6. 

   B C Vasundhra said on Sunday, November 23, 2008, 20:15

   Issue is not of pay parity or comparison with other services, issue is connected with command and control being compromised, thus connected indirectlly with the national security. It is not understood how Soldiers are being compared with Servants(Government),Firstly word servant it self is derogatory and secondly Soldiers are soldiers and fighting man has its own unwritten code of conduct,e.g. historically on surrender ceremony of Porus to the forces of Alexander the Great and recently surrender of Gen Niazi to Gen Aurroa.Soldier fights and lives for Izzat and also knows how to respect the izzat of defeated enemy soldier. Look at Ministry of Defence asking the explanation of Naval Head Quarters on firing on pirates , as if navy had had reached Gulf of Aden on its own. By the same token how Civil Government SERVANTS have reached to the conclusion that soldiers have only monetry crib when not a single person from defence forces was on the pay commisson staff to represent the Forces. Money is a important factor in life, but IZZAT is still more important than any thing else. Sixth Pay Commission report has hit on the very foundations of armed forces ethos. By comparing soldiers as/with government servants this report it seem has prepared the ground to employ Chowkidars instead of recruiting soldiers. On anomalies quite a lot has been discussed, past experience is a witness, Courts were kind enough to render justice in a few, rest are at the mercy of heavens, no doubt Anamoly Committee is going to be sure shot joke. Discussion on the issue will contnue even till the cows return home, solution to the issue is simple-Special Pay Commission for the Armed forces as being done in the leading responsible nations in the developed world.

   Reply
7. 

   G.Ramdas said on Sunday, November 23, 2008, 20:55

   Highlighting the difficult task carried out by the 6th Pay Commission while framing the recommendations, Cabinet secretary Sh.Chandrasekhar has said that they had to make a huge change in the structure. “See normally we used to get pay scales. “Here we have gone away from pay scales to the Pay Band structure, which is entirely different structure. So, to maintain the parity was pretty difficult. But still I think we did a pretty good job,” he said.

   Yet Inspite of clear gazette notification on 29th Aug and instructions on 1st September, para 4.2 of O.M No.F.38/37/08-P&PW(A).pt.1of the O.M of 01/09/08, was deliberately altered thro’ clarifications issued by the same dept. subsequently on 3rd oct. and 14th oct., which has created anomalies and deprived the rightful dues to S.A.G officers in pre-revised scales S-30.Their representations are unanswered.Why can’t the anamolies committeee invite representations publicly from the affected parties before deciding the issue? Since retired senior officers are scattered all over the country and do not have proper Associations to represent their case, this is all the more required.Hope Minstry of Finance/Pension will refer these issues to the Anamolies committee and give opportunity to the aggrieved officers to be heard

   Reply
8. 

   Murthy said on Sunday, November 23, 2008, 22:03

   It is really nothing as such that the Parity was not maintained. Army officers are befooling the Weak Government and normal public who does not know the various allowances, subsidies, facilities and other services received and used by the officers from the government and with the authority in hand, the PBORs were used as their own servants. In view of the above, how can they get parity. Actually, none of them bothered about PBOR who is on the front line and doing service 24 hours. The first bullet will always be the PBOR. Let us think about the service who is actually doing and who is asking for parity. It is meaningless to think and act in such a way and not expected from services. It is high time to stop house top claims.

   Reply
9. 

   menon said on Sunday, November 23, 2008, 23:08

   The IAS modified service rules when the SCPC was in progress with prior knowledge of the outcome. They placed themselves on greener pastures and now they find it difficult to give the Armed forces their dues. They have stooped to all levels of creating a rift between the CPO/PMFs and the Military, the PBOR and the Officers, the MNS and regular cadre. They stoop to all levels. Only an imbecile would belive the Cabinet Secretary. Now even the Cabinet Secretary is in the Election mode trying to downplay the Military. He should know his place as a government SERVANT. The Sardar is a gutless man who cannot put these crooks in their place. Maybe he has to bumsuck up to them for the Elections.

   Reply
10. 

    abcd said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 6:04

    http://www.hinduonnet.com/2007/05/07/stories/2007050700200900.htm
    Dear Mr. Cabinet Secretary, Pl. read this link.Now he says
    “But still I think we did a pretty good job” wht a joke!. the defence forces have been deceived, hoodwinked and cheated. now they say it will be very difficult to correct it? was it difficult to creat this mess in the first place? Pl. tell me when defence forces constitute 40% why there is no represenatation when all other small cadres also have a member? DELIBERATE???
    Mr. PM Pl. set thge wrong right

    Reply
11. 

    abcd said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 6:11

    “Mr. Chandrasekhar said issues become more complicated when people start feeling that they are being discriminated against by the Pay Commission recommendations.

    “It is very difficult when people feel that this chap has got more than me…that feeling is there. So, to maintain that kind of balance…. it is very difficult,” he said.”
    Mr. Secretary, IT IS NOT A FEELING.IT IS THE HARD FACT. PL. CHK PRE-6 Pay COMMSN Scale and NOW. YOU ARE SAYING IT IS A FEELING??? COME ON!! EVERONE KNOPWS THE FACTS NOW>

    Reply
12. 

    king hussain said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 8:31

    The babus headed by the crooked cabinet secretary has cheated the armed forces…he is lucky to have an equally incompetent pm like manmohan . ….Mr KMC, a retired Lt Col was drawing more pension than a retired director till now….. now as per the 6cpc the retired director draws 8000 to 10000 rupees more pension than a retired Lt Col…..I think its simple mathematics and is it so difficult for the problem to be rectified ….is n’t it a dliberately created problem by fools like you who have sown the seeds of discontentment in the forces……..is it that the director became more competent than the Lt Col post retirement??? Don’k keep stupid things like “this chap has got more than that chap.”…speak like a mature cab secy …….Please rise above these petty thing and set things right…..now…after all you would also be retiring very soon….let people not keep cursing you for the rest of your life…..

    Reply
13. 

    sam said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 10:52

    WELL, CAB SECY AND OTHERS HAVE GOT THEIR ARREARS AND WELL SECURED. WHAT ABOUT SHIVERING MEN IN UNIFORM ALONG BORDERS. WHY THIS DILLY DALLYING. IS NOT SOME RESPONSIBLE. IS NOT SOME ON ACCOUNTABLE? ISN’T IT DERELICTION OF DUTY TO PROCRASTINATE AND SLEEP OVER SUCH A SERIOUS ISSUE ? WHAT IS AILING OUR BUREAUCRACY ? IT IS TIME WE WAKE UP. JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED.

    Reply
14. 

    D Ashitanand said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 11:08

    This man is shameless. He ought to be shot in full public view!

    Reply
15. 

    Nationalist said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 11:30

    The immaturity & conceited approach of this cabinet Secy is indeed remarkable. He alongwith his crony Sushma Nath (Expenditure Secy) have been singularly responsible for the deep sense of humilation & utter despondency setting upon the psyche of the serving Armed Forces officers. In their quest to nullify the MSP ,they have downgraded the officer in both Rank pay & Pay band.It is not understood as to how he was unaware of maintaning parity of Ranks . Mr Chandrashekhar you should have at least known of the existence of a document called Warrant of Precedence. Your bias attitude has led to immense demoralisation and rising anger among the Army officers which is not at all healthy. Get on with the job of rectifing your mistakes before it is too late and later indicted for your blatant biased attitude leading to compromise of National Security.

    Reply
16. 

    Nationalist said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 12:02

    The immaturity & conceited approach of this cabinet Secy is indeed remarkable. He alongwith his crony Sushma Nath (Expenditure Secy) have been singularly responsible for the deep sense of humilation & utter despondency setting upon the psyche of the serving Armed Forces officers. In their quest to nullify the MSP ,they have downgraded the officer in both Rank pay & Pay band.It is not understood as to how he was unaware of maintaning parity of Ranks . Mr Chandrashekhar you should have at least known of the existence of a document called Warrant of Precedence. Your bias attitude has led to immense demoralisation and rising anger among the Army officers

    Reply
17. 

    abc said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 12:47

    The cab sec is very right in whatever he said.let us take an example in which you hire a person for looking after the security aspect of your house and you just leave it to him.
    now that person because he has the keys of the house he starts cleaning the house and doing other things for the house and also starts moving up and down the stairs.
    now because he is chatak and in his chatki he starts asking for the money for the tasks which he was not supposed to do . now will you pay him. NO

    so how do you expect govt of india to pay. defence officers are also govt officers and no body told them they are special they themselves starting thinking that they are special for that they want more. in fact all defence officers must behave exactly like govt officers. who tell them to work for 24*7 in peace posting why can’t they also work 5 day week and 10to5 only. for feild they will be paid so there they can 24 hours.

    Reply
18. 

    def said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 13:55

    @abc 12:47

    Great Logic!!!! Kudos to you for coming out with an exellent mid-path. So when ever there is an emergency like floods, earthquakes or when the civil administration is feeling helpless for a child has fallen into a deep well or boring or sewer which the civil administration has conviniently forgotten to close then we should tell them to occur only from 10 to 5 since the AF in peace stn will be working during those hours only!!!

    And what an example you have given!!! You are comparing the AF with a security guard?????? Do you have the foggiest idea of what will happen if the AF let down their guard???? The ppl from across will come and shove something into all your open holes and will probably make some new ones also.

    Reply
19. 

    Rajababu said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 14:20

    I feel what the cabinet secretary is plain Bull shit. It is he along with two other jokers who tinkered with the original report and screwed it all up. He should own up the responsibility and resign. If it was any other country he would have been booted out along with his cronies. But unfortinately this is India wherin saath khoon bhi maaf ho jatha hai. The beurecrats of this country should be made accountable for their actions else they will end up selling the country.
    I would aslo like to add that i read an article about court martial of a Lt Gen. But has anybody given a thought about his co-eaters in the form of Babus????. like is said babus always get away with all corruptions(kickbacks) making the service chap a Bakra. The same analogy applies to the 6 CPC. After shitting all over the place the babus expect the services to clean up the mess. God save this country

    Reply
20. 

    R Gopal said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 14:53

    To the best of my knowledge,Cabinet Secretary,Principal Secretary or for that matter any Secretary is NOT the Govt. They are Govt. servants. Only a group of ministers under the the PM can speak on behalf of govt. Even a news agency like PTI quotes cabinet secretay’s utterances as Govt. which is wrong.

    Reply
21. 

    jabar said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 15:41

    This fellow is accepting his mistake and then contaradicting his stand I strongly reccomend that this fellow should be posted to Siachin for 3 months as minimum punishment for trying to destroy rhe very fibre of this nations army. On return from Siachin he should be exiled for 3 months to nathula border. He should then be allowed to resume his duties as by then he wuold have stopped talking like a mad man

    Reply
22. 

    PRABHAKAR said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 15:48

    Mr. Chandrasekhar is the author of CORE ISSUE of the problem. He now pretends as if he knows nothing. Who modified the recommendation of 6th Pay Commission and included the Director level officers in the pre revised scale of 14300- in PB-4 resulting in undue benefit to the tune of 25000/-PM and creating heartburn in the armed forces and bitter but silent infight within civil services???? This is the mother of all problems and its he who gave birth to it. Tell me, Mr. Chandrasekhar, what additional responsibilty the Directors started shouldering from 01.01.2006 onwards that you gave them a hike of 25000/- pm in utter disregard of SCPC recommendations!!!! Tell me one good reason for such a huge hike!! I knew that you messed up whole thing and now you want to hide yourself behind by telling all kinds of justifications. Have the morale courage to tell the Committee of ministers that all they need to do is to moderate the hike given to Director level officers who were in the pre-revised scale of 14300-.I am sure that will set all other issues at rest.

    Reply
23. 

    jayasurya said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 18:20

    If you want to know the standard or understanding skills of our babus, go through the comments of goddamn fellow ‘abc’. Even pbors have better skills of appreciation of facts or logic than these ‘abc’s. These people will never accept 1 + 1 is 2, unless you grease their palm. Since Cab secy is also coming from this rot, you can not expect any standard ‘maths’ or ‘physics’ from him too. Long live civil services … Hell with defense services… Oh God save this country..???

    Reply
24. 

    sanjay said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 18:24

    I think some one should undertake a study of the rate of resignations and voluntary Retirements amongst the officers and men of CPMF. The reasons are several.
    First is the very tough service conditions. There is no peace posting. The only thing that changes after every three years or so are the numbers of Border Pillars and the terrain.
    Earlier one could think of 2 months break from the routine in shape of Collective training at Unit Hq. But that also has gone with heavily increased deployment in election related duties. The Jawan in Army atleast is given a MSP but the Jawan of CPMF working at the same place under the same conditions do not get anything.
    Second is the excuriatingly slow rate of career progression in all ranks. A Jawan becomes Hd Constable in about 18-20 years. An officer gets his first promotion in about 8-9 years and the second in same time. By the time he gets his third promotion he is already in his late 40ties. The officers and men do not see a future for themselves in the very organisation to which they give their entire youth. Firstly, there are very few avenues available and secondly a large portion of even these avenues at supervisory levels is taken away by the deputationists flleing unsympathetic political masters in states
    Third is the extremely poor quality of leadership provided by these deputationists. These failed Police officers come only to enjoy a khushi time in the these forces. They want all the perks and more but do not want to solve any of the problems afflicting these forces.
    Fourth is the proverbial sword of Democeles that hangs over the heads of CPMF officers always. There are court martials galore of officers and men for even minor mistakes. There is the case of one officer in one of the CPMF in which the officer has been given notice for Compulsary retirement for the very charge for which he has already been aquitted by a court martial

    Reply
25. 

    abc said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 18:48

    @JAYASURYA

    yaar agar aap log khud apne aap ko ragdte raho to uske liye hum yaa govt thode hi jimmedar hain. who says that even in peace posting you keep yourself busy for 24 hours and then ask more pay for that. as it is in the present scene no fullfledged war is possible for the next 50 years. Do you really think that govt should pay you peoples more? if yes for what?

    Reply
26. 

    menon said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 19:20

    Chandrasekhar is NOT the GOVERNMENT OF INDIA.
    AND, IF HE HAS MADE A STATEMENT PERPETRATING HIMSELF AS THE SELF PROCLAIMED DON OF A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC THEN HE MUST FACE DISCIPLINARY ACTION.

    He is a Government Servant. A Paid employee.
    The duly elected Ministers may call themselves a part of the Government but Chandrasekhar should not outgrow his boots.

    Yes, he is the senior most Brigand of the band of unscrupulous administrators of India. At the level of the Cabinet Secretary if he makes such a bigoted statement when The GoM is still doing its task then he should be sacked and re-designated to a Group C cadre. He doesn’t deserve to be in a Group A cadre after releasing such malicious and slanted statements. The ATS is also doing the same on directions of the IAS.

    If the Service Chiefs in the same tone return the cheap remark by retorting that these wily nincompoops are responsible for the fiasco and demoralization of the Armed forces will that also be a statement by the Government of India?

    After all the Service Chiefs and the Cabinet Secretary are all Government servants. Chandu should know what to speak, and when, and, I feel that he should be rapped for this irresponsible statement which must have been with the intent of trying to maliciously override the thought process of the GoM.

    The priming of CPOs/PMFs to thwart the just demands of the Armed forces have also been provoked by the ilk of Chandrasekhar.

    The negative publicity that the military is getting these days is also be doctored by these chaps so that the public who are fed up by mis-governance of these band of thieves do not rise up to support the military and stone these jokers on the streets of India.

    Reply
27. 

    menon said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 19:58

    Jayasurya – War may never take place in the next 50 yewars but when it does take place you cannot outsource the Army. You can only ask for a foreign power to take over and protect your country. Haven’t we learn’t from 1000 years of foreign invasions and rule?
    Do you take a 10 Rupee life insurance or do you take an insurance worth couple of lakhs? You may never die of an accident but yet you pay the premium.
    abc- you need to study more and reach xyz. Chatak Chandu may be your Boss and he will be very happy that his sychophant has said “Wah Boss” but think sweetheart what if you get an untrustworthy security man. He will be the first one to burn down your house. So, don’t abbet this act of subversion of the Armed Forces by the Indian Abettor Service – unless you are one of them.

    Reply
28. 

    menon said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 20:02

    IS THE IAS GODS OWN SH*T THAT NO ONE CAN ASK FOR PARITY WITH THEM.
    IF SO WHY ARE THEY INCITING THE CPOs/PMF TO EQUATE THEMSELVES WITH THE MILITARY? EQUATING 26 YEARS WITH 14 YEARS YEARS IS PLAIN ARROGANCE AND CHANDU MANGU NEEDS A GOOD HARD KICK IN THE POSTERIOR

    Reply
29. 

    abcd said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 20:11

    I fully agree with
    Menon, 19:20, 24 Nov.
    The anomalies are being aggressed by a group of Ministers of Govt of India. Since when did Cabinet secretary become the GOVT??? He is usurping the powers of GoM!! IS PM Listeneing

    Reply
30. 

    abcd said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 20:12

    I fully agree with
    Menon, 19:20, 24 Nov.
    The anomalies are being addressed by a group of Ministers of Govt of India. Since when did Cabinet secretary become the GOVT??? He is usurping the powers of GoM!! IS PM Listening? doesn’t it amount to DEFIANCE OF GOVT? MR. Shekar Gupta have you read this??

    Reply
31. 

    S Sathyanarayana said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 20:43

    I am in total disagreement with KMC’s claim that the CPC has kept in mind ‘parity’. Actually it is totally a biased report. Since the constituent members belong to elite class i.e., bureaucrats. they shed the skin in the form of PB2 & PB1 and kept themselves at a very high level almost to a level which even the Britishers never conceived for themselves during the ‘Raj Times’. In Socialist economy the poor class should be harnessed and taken care of. That’s why the committee is constituted of Secretaries. But, alas!, they proved more greedy in protecting their own interest than protecting the poor class and especially the armed forces, whose sacrifice can never be compensated with money or by word of praise.

    Reply
32. 

    Rajababu said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 20:56

    my dear abc,

    we didnt join the services like beggars people join the services with some hope and aspiration at teenage before they can ever see and assess the world They are also working like the govt. only thing they are maintaining the age old equipment to fight war/support those who maintain them. so we dont have to have war to justify the sevices existance. they are deterrent for the enemies that be. u have to have them whether u like it or leave it. if this is the attitude of civilians no wonder the intake has reduced drastically in the services(go and see the defence academies to believe what i am saying) god give sense to our citizens

    Reply
33. 

    Rajababu said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 21:01

    like to post what i have posted in the other blog as it is related to this blog. This pertains to the issue of parity. It may be noted that there is no comparision/parity between various wings of the govt. each dept is unique and there is no question of parity. the parity should be there only when close interactions/operations exists wherin the senior service takes the precedence over the others like in CI ops the army takes the lead. law and Order the police,border security the BSF etc. I feel the CPC has only divided the govt employees and greatened the rift instead of doing good. The IAS babus are adoptiong the age old policy of Divide and Rule and we are falling prey to it. are u guys aware that the babus get 2 increments instead of one? Pse educate urselves on the babus payscales before fighting with each other and identify the real culprit

    Reply
34. 

    G M Chaphekar said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 21:44

    SPC has failed in simple mathematics.Or they have done it deliberately. Different multiplication factors of 1.86 and 2,65 for PB 123 and PB4 is the root cause of all problems The matter is further complicated by COS who have tried to butter their side of bread . Mr secretary either you are lying at somebody’s behest or you are not worthy of your post. Simple solution to all these problems is same multiplication factor of 1,86 which has a basis and not 2,65 which has no basis Further there is another nonsense of same date of increment injusticing thos ewhose increment dates are from Jan to July Every court will strike down this .

    Reply
35. 

    Deeply Troubled Soldier said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 21:52

    The issue is about parity with status which existed in the V pay commission,it is not about pay,it is unbecomng of the Cabinet Secretary to delierately confuse it with pay and make it appear to the public at large that the demands of the Army are not tenable.What was the need to have the VI pay commission,if the DA had gone to 100%or 500%,so be it,the computers would have calculated it.At least the parity would have been maintained.Replacing pay scale with pay band is all hogwash,you still have different grade pay which serves the purpose of the erstwhile pay scale. The only purpose the VI pay commission has achieved is to lower the status of the Armed forces. You could have easily had one pay band each for each group A,B,or C. Why should there be two pay bands for Group A.

    Reply
36. 

    A Helpless & Thankless Nation said on Monday, November 24, 2008, 22:47

    This my story to all the Warriors of this Great nation, I Bow my Head in Shame in front of my Warriors
    Jaihind

    Reply
37. 

    dev said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 7:40

    Har daal pe babu baithha hei,iss desh ki raid laggane ko
    Desbhaktt aaj bhukhe marte,na milti rotti khane ko
    Sharam,haya sab milli mitti mein
    Pehredaar jalleel kiye abb,harr dushtt hei khadda sattane ko.

    Reply
38. 

    dev said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 7:42

    Don’t expect anything better from people like chandersekhar….a babu par excellence.

    Reply
39. 

    PARVATI said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 10:32

    CAB SECY DID A GOOD JOB INDEED IN CHEATING ARMED FORCES AND UPGRADING CIVILIAONS BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS. HIS MISSION WAS TO IMPROVE BUT HE DID THE REVERSE. GOM HAD TO BE TASKED TO UNDO THE DAMAGE. HOPE AT LEAST THE GOM WILL DO JUSTICE AND SHOW THE DOOR TO THE CAB SECY

    Reply
40. 

    def said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 16:06

    Strict disciplinary action needs to be taken against Chandrashekhar who has self appointed himself as Govt . He is just a Govt Servant and should remain within his boots. He is trying to undermine and thereby scuutle the GoM findings so as to save his skin as he is noe running for cover. He and Sushma Nath are the vested interests who have blatantly subverted the whole system of CoS and have created such blatant injustices.Today the Assam DGP etc are unwilling to listen to the Corps Commander in Assam who till now is to virtually give direction to coordinate the war against terror in Assam under unified Command.But with the DGP in HAG+ and the Corps Commander in PB-4 , obviously the police officers are not interested in listening resulting in serious loopholes in the Security apparatus. Moreover there has creapt in serious differences between PMF forces and the Army at mid level too which is extemely detrimental to the CI operations

    Reply
41. 

    D Ashitanand said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 16:35

    The only thing difficult about this SNAFU is giving this cab sec a bloody kick up his bloody arse.

    Reply
42. 

    Khaki said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 17:19

    I am happy that our CS has finally given a shut up call to the OGs. They have the temerity to say that others are Servants and they are soldiers. Already they are sucking this nation dry. Even in PB-3 , a Lt Col is getting about 25 % more than their DS equivalants, plus all the perks. Moreover Cols and above are not complaining and majors and below are not complaining . I think Lt Cols should be merged with Majors , which in any case they are due to AVS committee. That will settle the parity issue once and for all. majors will also like this as they can aspire to become Cols with one rank less in between.

    Reply
43. 

    jayasurya said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 17:44

    Dear ‘OG’s. Cheer up. Parity of major with DS equivalents is restored with a grade pay of rs. 7600/-. News is in the offing.

    Reply
44. 

    abc said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 17:49

    @KHAKI

    yes just throw them to indian ocean and let pakees come to india and do whatever they want to do. as it is majors are not speaking because they will never be lt col and also and above are ********* so they will not speak

    Reply
45. 

    Khaki said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 17:50

    I am sending all these perverted comments to the CS so that he knows how disciplined our forces are and they dont even deserve PB-1

    Reply
46. 

    abc said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 18:13

    @ khaki

    isi discipline ke naam par hi to pichle 60 saal se is desh ne fauz band baza di

    Reply
47. 

    chandy said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 18:24

    you will do agreat favour khaki.

    Reply
48. 

    PARVATI said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 18:46

    LET US HOPE GOOD SENSE WILL PREVAIL IN GOM AND JUSTICE WILL BE DONE AT THE EARLIEST LEST MORE DAMAGE SHOULD TAKE PLACE.

    Reply
49. 

    Renuka said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 18:55

    @Khaki….

    Cool down man…..it is not your share the OGs are asking for. They are simply asking for their rightful places that existed before.

    If you feel Khakies need something say so it will not be at the cost of any one else.

    Chandru has spoken his heart when he asks about comaprisons and balance. There is nver a comparision between “Dandamar Thulas” and Armed Forces. Do not grow out of your boots. CPOs are barking as IAS / IPS puppies as you all by yourselves have no identity.
    Regarding anomalies, every one in the Armed Forces including retired ones are crying. Anomalies exist at each and every rank. The IAS and the auxillary services like IPS and CPOs are hell bent on destroying the only insititution which may come in their way of destroying the Indian Democracy one day. They know it and so does everyone else.

    Reply
50. 

    Gabbar said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 19:25

    Khaki

    Who the hell are you. I gift you my uniform all alowances and my posting to LOC Pl contact me urgent

    Reply
51. 

    Thapar said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 19:56

    abc and khaki, please go for an urgent psychiatric examination ….some thing is seriously wrong with both of you……

    Reply
52. 

    k singh said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 20:02

    khaki, tu cab sec ka naukar hai? ya uska bawarchi?? lagta hai ki too dono hai.

    Reply
53. 

    yogee said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 20:32

    chandru is an LTTE agent who as cabinet secy is bent upon demoralising the armed forces.People like him should be hanged by he balls

    Reply
54. 

    menon said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 20:33

    Khaki, Bhej de apne Don ko. Shayad usse kuch sharm aa jaye. Tu to besharam hain. Usse shayd kuch sharam aa jaye. After sucking the public of their hard earned money you Khakis and Babus demand the best pay. If you have the balls in you put your organisations under acts like the Military Acts. 99.9% of you jokers will be courtmartialled. The popular Acts under which you guys will be charged will be “Abetment and misappropriation of Goverment resources” and ” Taking and aiding Graft”.

    Reply
55. 

    menon said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 21:53

    Quote —’The three-judge committee had also recommended a sharp hike in post-retirement benefits of judges. It has recommended that the CJI receive a consolidated salary of Rs 1 lakh per month, which is still more than what the Cabinet Secretary is to receive following the implementation of the sixth pay panel report.
    The ministry has suggested that the salaries of the SC judges and HC CJs be also pared down to bring them at par with what the Cabinet Secretary of the Government of India is entitled to under the Sixth Pay Commission.’ —- Unquote

    Any organisation that gives the Bureaucrats an inferiority complex will be shamed. So they scuttle the pay hike for Judges and now the next step if the Judiciary protest the injustice will be to discredit them with planted stories like they have done to the Armed forces. Going by Chandrasekhars logic, since the law of the Land is paramount there should be no bickering on by the statement, “It is very difficult when people feel that this chap has got more than me…That feeling is there.” Then why this mischief?

    Reply
56. 

    Raju.B.P said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 22:32

    Sir,
    in this controversy the poor defence pensioners are the looser.There is nobody to high light their problem.The One Rank One Pay has gone to the cold storage.5th and 6th pay commission commit that the pension of the pre 6th Pay commission is almost brought to the latest pensioners.
    Thanking you

    Reply
57. 

    Ashok said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 22:38

    @abc!!! It is below our dignity to interact with lowlife stupid fools like you. Is babudom really populated with likes of you??? India has no hope. Likes of you are only fit to be ruled by other races. You will make a good slave with such marked lack of shame and any trace of honor

    Reply
58. 

    Ashok said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 22:43

    @khaki!!!! Yes yes . Thats a great idea. Please give a feedback after sending the mails to the CS

    Reply
59. 

    B C Vasundhra said on Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 22:56

    Chandrashekhar it seems has an ambition, (like Krishnamenon) to make his name immortal, he seems to be working really hard to recreate pre 1962 era. Keep it up. Keep OGs in its place and be prepared to face the sweet melodies of 1962 era. NO one remembers the then COAS of Indian army who took complete responsibility for the debacle and resigned but utter 1962 and Krishnamenon props up. Wish you best of luck CS.”IT IS VERY DIFFICULT…. IS NOT IN THE VOCABLARY OF INDIAN DEFENCE FORCES’—-MR CS, if the self created problem can not be solved to the satisfaction, then please resign and go. Problem creators should thank their stars,if they believe in destiny, that they are not in uniform. This act of omission and commission is a sure shot for invitation to General Court Martial.

    Reply
60. 

    k singh said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 6:09

    @khaki and abc-
    khaki too cab sec ka naukar hai? yaa uska bawarchi? lagta hai too uska chaddi bhi roz dhotha hai!! you both should be hanged by your balls. you are a disgrace for this country. go away ………….bas*****

    Reply
61. 

    ajay said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 9:48

    good response from PM. when the services issue is there GOVT says diffficult. but teh services should not leave it but srtongly give a time frame to finish teh task . PM has to say yes or NO don’t delay it to die it’s own death…..
    army people will not accept it….

    Reply
62. 

    ajay said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 9:52

    PM hai.. hai….
    that should b the war cry of OG”S and tell the world INDIA IS SHINING BY BRINGING THE ARMY TO DOGS>>>>>>>

    Reply
63. 

    abc said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 10:30

    @ ajay

    or the dogs have entered the army

    Reply
64. 

    abc said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 10:34

    @ ashok why are you getting so tense. if the points given by me are incorrect then say something. is it not correct that even now the defence officers with less then 10-12 years of service are clueless about the present happenings and the elite gp ( col and Gen) are bothered just for themselves

    Reply
65. 

    D Ashitanand said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 12:41

    Is bara babu ko joote maaro.

    Reply
66. 

    abc said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 12:54

    @D Ashitanand
    the problem with you peoples is that the training given to you is not correct. it makes you feel superior from others without any reason. and you tend loose temper without any reason only a illogical person will use the language you are using.
    though you peoples feel that you all are superior but could not do anything till now at least learn to write a decent language

    Reply
67. 

    ajay said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 14:15

    ya we think we are superior or else we 2 will work like babu. …..todays work next day and tomorrow never comes …so why work….. but the second oldest profession in the world ….is a life style where only qualified can join and lesser mortals can only try to discredit it as they can not enter it by QUOTA, Family ties, money, reservation,,,,,,,………

    Reply
68. 

    RK CHAUHAN said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 14:21

    Sir,

    It is really surprising that defence forces being made scape goat every time. since Indian armded forces is one of the most discipline, they never strike since independence and govt is insisting todo so by not justifying their demands for the 6th pay commission. I am sure, had they go on strike, govt must look into thematter as usual and as practice. Every dept threaten for strike to implement their demands.

    Why govt not implement the demand of armded forces who served the nation with dedication, and full sacrifife. Those who have objection, atleat must be sent once to srinagar and Leh-Ladakh or Rajasthan, where temperature varied from plus/minus 50 degreee celcious.

    Reply
69. 

    Rajababu said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 14:45

    @abc and khaki

    if u incite people anybody having the best trg and etiquettes will react. I may also like to mention her that the standards have been lowered in services to increase the intake though nobody is going to accept the same publicly. thats the reason some bad or average elements enter services. Now u can see what the services are getting for being paid pittence all the years. I bet u guys will not join services if given offers now. Further i would like to add that we have all joined services earlier with good qualifications inspite good offers avialble in the market. So dont think we are beggars. If we get an opportunity we can better anybody. See the kind of jobs ex servicemen are getting outside and satisfy urselves.

    Reply
70. 

    D Ashitanand said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 16:32

    @abc
    I only wish the issue was of my military training or my command over the English language. I suppose, I could have learnt a trick or two from you!
    Inciting the soldier is no great shakes. Whether he is provoked to do something foolish is another matter. Currently the Babus have tried their level best to incite but have not evoked more than the likes of my one-liner outbursts. Its simply not a good idea to take well disciplined and trained soldiers for granted. Take that as gospel truth from a soldier. Ultimately, we must suffer the consequences of what we do AND do not do.
    The question we all must answer, as Indians, is to decide who will bear arms for the country. The present SCPC dispensation has, unwittingly or deliberately, decided that we may do with a poorer quality of military leadership than available at present. The armed forces fraternity vehemently disagrees. What does the Indian public think?
    So, babus are being petty when they think only of themselves. I am not sure whether they think of anybody else at all.

    Reply
71. 

    amar said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 17:11

    by saying we have done a good job it seems Mr CS wants to say “WE DID A GOOD JOB FOR OURSELVES”. i feel we should shelf the 6th cpc and revert to 5th one yesterdays pony is a horse .

    Reply
72. 

    abc said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 17:53

    @to all concerned

    see what ever you peoples have to undergo it is your fate no body can do any thing for that moreover what ever equations has been existing for the last 60 years they can’t be changed overnight. and if for the last 60 years no objection was raised it is the fault of your top bosses just think why there was no problem with any other services. what ever i know you peoples have been shying away discussing the pay and allowances matter now who will face the brunt. moreover why can’t you understand that if for the last 60day no media or political bosses are concerned on 4 core issues it means they must be having something strong against this parity issue but just because no body want to annoy a good boy in family they do not say anything but does that mean they give everything to that good boy so be a good boy and do’nt ask for anything so that atleast in the eyes of general public you remain a good boy. and also i can tell you do’nt expect to much from the GOM because they have run the country with help of bureaucracy only. At least there is not immediate threat to the safty of this country. which will be looked after as it is by you peoples after all you have been looking after inspite of so manyof pay commissions . even in last pay commission every body of us was reaching in the pay scale 16400—- but only 25 percent of you could reach tothat level that time that nobody represented so what is the problem this time.

    Reply
73. 

    sourabh said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 19:41

    i just wonder why we have to be at the receiving end always and every time?
    why are we made to feel that by increasing our pay a favour is being done to us? motivation does not waver im sure. as officers we deliver and will continue to deliver in what we are tasked to do. so then why cringe when you are asked to deliver a decent pay package. there are a lot of major areas where we in the armed forces miss out big time simply because of lack of access to oppurtunity- be it a peace station or fd. that can only be made up by adequate compensation. people should wake up to realities. nobody treats the armed forces so shoddily any where in the civilised world. realise that we are not the enemy.

    Reply
74. 

    Dan said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 19:57

    I wonder why the pay parity is difficult when it is negatively affecting armed Forces. Would the reply been the same if the IAS were wronged (Though never possible). Well You all know the answer. Its like Hitler justifying his position when ruling Germany

    Reply
75. 

    Dan said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 20:02

    abc you have just no idea about the capability of the Arned Forces Officer. I don’t blame you because its just the YOU DO NOT HAVE IT IN YOU TO BE AN ARMED FORCES OFFICER> Did You come by reservation by any chance ?? For your information we don’t have reservations and its only merit that prevails. I only have pity for you and your thought process.

    Reply
76. 

    Dan said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 20:09

    Gentlemen Khaki is an educated Constable so you should ignore his intellect and desire to vote for his bosses. Please excuse him for he is depressed and a Psychiatric patient. Khaki Get well soon Mamu

    Reply
77. 

    Anon said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 20:15

    I do not understand this word”parity”. My understanding of the word is simple- it means “evenness”. Nothing in this world stands on perfect evenness, then how can different jobs be on parity. Lets be realistic. The pay should be decided on the differentials that will happen between the aam admi and the top echelons. Too large gaps will create social imbalances and law and order problems. The whole world is under recession— the government employees are getting a bonanza. What an irony of life? While millions get pink slips, the government sector get pay hefty hikes. Yet they crib!

    Reply
78. 

    dev said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 21:01

    @anon……AREU A NON OR A Begger or a Baba or a stupid babu……why should Govt servents not be looked after….and why the hell FAUzzies not be looked after…when you sleep in quilt with your wife stupid…these people freeze in minus 60 degree at glacier…You bloody rogue..shameless pig……..Idiot of highest order.Sick rascals like you must be burried alive.

    Reply
79. 

    dev said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 21:03

    Please stop this discussion……a few idiots are planted here to instigate our patriotic fauzzies….please dears don’t spoil your head needlessly.this country has gone to doges…sent by dogs.

    Reply
80. 

    dev said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 21:06

    Imbalance people can never think of balance…….Leave them to rot please.

    Reply
81. 

    pdp deo said on Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 21:59

    its irony that i n a democratic set up the armed forces are forced by beurocrats and politicians to keep a low profile on their on their pay and perks when it comes to politicians all of asudden they raise thier pAY AND PERKS WITH VOICE VOTE IN PARLIAMENT AND ASSEMBLY FOR THIS REASON THERE IS tremendous increase in seeking political benifits by aspiring to become to MLAs /MPs ministers . what they do they even do not attend regular meetings in assemblies / parliament and they get away by giving exuses . they want armed forces pers by keeping their mouth shut work in remote areas continuosly forced to live away from familes and childeren and thus unable to look after their families. Let us not allow the victimisation and expect a volcanic eruption in the country which may damage back bone of indian democracy on wehich we all ( countrymen)are thiriving . Let not the honour of the armed forcers be lowered so that we keep progreesing .

    Reply
82. 

    Ravi said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 12:49

    I suggest this thread be closed.

    Reply
83. 

    abc said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 12:52

    @ sab fauzi bhai log yaar IAS lobby aur aap ke boss logon dono ko angrezi bahut hi acchhi aati hai par dikkaat ye hai IAS lobby ke paas kalam ki takat hai aur wo kalam ki taakat ka istemaal bhi karti hai iske alawa aap logon ne suna bhi hoga PEN IS MIGHTER THAN SWORD to aap log parity ka issue to bhool hi jao waise group B officers ki salary kharaab nahin hai

    Reply
84. 

    abc said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 12:54

    @ ravo kyon suchh bahut kadhwa hai na

    Reply
85. 

    Ravi said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 13:09

    @abc…..mauf karna bhai, abhi to mujhe bombay jana hai….agar wapis aya to vartalap jari rakhange…..

    Reply
86. 

    Khaki said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 17:01

    Yes there should be parity. The civilians should also get pension, civil servive pay (CSP) and other facilities being given to the OGs. only then the issue of PB-4 should be raised. I fail to comprehend why OGs link Izzat with pay parity. Is it a saleable commodity ? And OGs better remove this misconception they are harbouring that Izzat is a proprietory item whose claim only they can make. Give Izzat to others and you will be reciprocated.

    Reply
87. 

    Khaki said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 17:30

    Excerpts from The Armed Forces should not view civil servants as antagonists. A redefinition of their equation is needed by
    Sushant K. Singh and Rohit Pradhan

    http://www.livemint.com/2008/11/20221559/2008/11/26002335/For-a-new-civilmilitary-order.html

    The military’s attitude towards the civil service stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of its nature and role. German thinker Max Weber believed that bureaucratic organizations were an attempt to align the decision-making process to “calculable risks”, as rationality was inseparable part of the bureaucratic order. While Weber’s rather romanticized vision of bureaucracy has been modified by later-day thinkers, the concept of “rational bureaucracy” has continued relevance in an era of increasingly complex decision-making process. Bureaucrats act as a bridge between legislative intent and implementable policy—they are involved with all three functions of formal policymaking: agenda-setting, policy formulation and its implementation. The tasks of modern governance are too complex, technical and enormous to be left either to the legislature or political heads of departments. Moreover, the political executive and Parliament may lose sight of the broader and serious questions of national importance if they were to enter into the details of routine administration.
    Therefore, the argument that civilian control of military is restricted to politicians displays a blithe ignorance of basic tenets of public policy as well as the provisions of the Indian Constitution which provides an explicit constitutional basis to bureaucratic services—India’s parliamentary form of government is enmeshed intractably with the support of the civil bureaucracy. So dear OGs salute your IAS masters

    Reply
88. 

    sreelekha said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 17:44

    Dear friends,
    i think all OGs were discussing (begging) for the pay when the militants coolly came from sea cheating or fooling(no doubt) in Mumbai and cause the biggest embarasment for the country.Only sizable militants were ther but I see how the famous marine commandos waited for the NSG AND other forces from Delhi.it was really pity that this fauzis never appreciate the roles of police officers/CPMF WHO had laid their lives.its high time that all allowances in peace tenures should be stopped and the same may be doubled only area spcific.i can’t understand the logic of officers ration in Delhi,Mumbai.calcutta and other metros.it should be stopped and the money saved should be used to all forses keeping area specific in consideration.i feel pity about this armed foces who spend time in playing Golf,squash,Tennis,selling the rations and potters pay in LC,TAKING PART IN TERROR ACTIVITIES,SELLING FUEL ETC VERY PITY…REMEMBER PAKISTANgovt rul;aed by Pak ARMY AND I CAN VOUCH THAT IT IS MORE CORRUPT THAN ANY BUREOCRACY IN THE WORLD.stop begging and stop spreading terror &guard the sea as the land is not entirely looked after by U PEOPLE

    Reply
89. 

    Ravi said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 17:47

    In consideration of the aforesaid and in conjunction with all prevailing correspondence, inter alias, in as much as in reference to the foregoing ,as available on file and prevailing and previous notifications and comments thereon and therein , vis a vis the noting and comments of the Committee on the resolution of aforesaid perceived and factual discrepancies and prevailing regulations constituted under the Resolution of Dependencies and Outcomes under the Presidency Act 1889, as amended by the Extraordinary Group of Parliamentary and Bureaucratic Notifications 1931 and further amended vide PEPSU and Telengana Reconstitution Act 1949 , the matter in under consideration by the Jai Hind Commission constituted in 1950 and will be resolved with due urgency in the near future.

    PS: All clerks super clerks will proceed on strike/bandh/pen down or some thing …or lunch at th Rajpath lawns from 1100 AM till……………….

    Reply
90. 

    Dan said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 19:22

    Dear sreelekha FOR YOUR INFORMATION

    —It was Coast guards or should I say LOst guards and bombay Dock police who were napping and not OGs or the Indian navy. First EDUCATE YOURSELF on the responsibilities and then comment. As far as Marine Comandos are concerned it is bettre that you aquaint yourself with the details. MArcos DO NOT JUMP INTO ANYTHING WITHOUT THE AUTHORITY of MOD( Civilian Control). Also I think you have no idea about who comprises NSG Yes sir It is ARMY and a limited amount of BSF (who is equally great arm) buty certainly not the POLIO I mean Police . Surprisingly it is the GOC Bombay and the NSG tackling the scene ( Well yes Bombay POlice is ensuring cover to NSG–Ask some knowledgeable gyuy as to what is giving cover). You must be an hell of an antinational element who even at times like this is busy taking POTSHOTS at Army –especially again when they WILL DELIVER. WEll I am sure you would be aware if responsibility of the Law and Order and immediate reaction to a contingency is That of maharashtra Polio I mean Police and not OGS——Sreelekha if you can’t think sane have some shame before voicing such low comments without knowledge on the Braves who give life to SAVE YOU AND YOUR BRETHEREN despite your pighedded ( My apologies) mindset–Shame on You

    Reply
91. 

    Dan said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 19:30

    Dear Sreelekha FOR YOUR INFORMATION

    —It was Coast guards or should I say LOst guards and bombay Dock police who were napping and not OGs or the Indian navy. First EDUCATE YOURSELF on the responsibilities and then comment. As far as Marine Comandos are concerned it is bettre that you aquaint yourself with the details. MArcos DO NOT JUMP INTO ANYTHING WITHOUT THE AUTHORITY of MOD( Civilian Control). Also I think you have no idea about who comprises NSG Yes sir It is ARMY and a limited amount of BSF (who is equally great arm) buty certainly not the POLIO I mean Police . Surprisingly it is the GOC Bombay and the NSG tackling the scene ( Well yes Bombay POlice is ensuring cover to NSG–Ask some knowledgeable gyuy as to what is giving cover). You must be an hell of an antinational element who even at times like this is busy taking POTSHOTS at Army –especially again when they WILL DELIVER. WEll I am sure you would be aware if responsibility of the Law and Order and immediate reaction to a contingency is That of maharashtra Polio I mean Police and not OGS——Sreelekha if you can’t think sane have some shame before voicing such low comments without knowledge on the Braves who give life to SAVE YOU AND YOUR BRETHEREN despite your pighedded ( My apologies) mindset–Shame on You
    C.C to Khaki–I wonder if you even have any idea of the working profile of OGs and Yes please take all the benefite and serve for just one year with army in field. Indian armed Forces have been in war since 1948 and every time ther was a contingency persons of your ilk actually RAN AWAY (Well some izzat in that friend)

    Reply
92. 

    Dan said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 19:45

    Khaki I have a lot of friend sin IPS but to tell you frankly what is army asking for pay parity to be restored. Will you be ready to maintain on 5 CPC scales to prove your point . You dishonour the Martyrs of the Nation and so many families of the Officers and Jawans whose families wait for just a month or two to spend with them in a year WEll yes no one grudges a CSP to you but I would be keen if IPS and IAS are ready to incorporate a clause of mandatory service / conscription with Indian army before coming into the Cadre–This way you may just be able to see for yourself that the perks you talking of are just for talking. I am sorry if am humilating some one–Read Man of War by John Master and Probably you might grow some senstivities to realise the life of a soldier. Also a comparison of the death rate of Officers/ jawans Of Indian armed forces in active duty/combat vis avis any IPS / IAS would impress upon you its bad to do do narrow minded politics over the Dead and for the honour of the country and yes not being emotional the history and the Govt position till date has ben in favour of Armesd forces. WOP and Precedence are also in favour of your Indian armed forces YOUR because you are an Indian and I protect you even if you castigate me THAT IS MY CONSTITUTIONAL Obligation and I have to live by the oath I take. We talk emotion because it is these very things that let us go to the battle in every war CI Ops to face bullets . Well sorry these are all emotions that doesn’t convinces few people that why does izzat matters to us and to our fraternity andwhy should we be given parity.

    Reply
93. 

    Dan said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 19:48

    Ravi let us abode by the code of an Officer and a gentlemen– Sometimes we become same as the people we fight. We know we are just and I am sure the truth shall prevail

    Reply
94. 

    dev said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 21:05

    @SRILEKHA……..OGs never let down nation…….It is the Wh***** like you who sell this nation to Pakis………..Shameless u r.

    Reply
95. 

    menon said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 21:05

    Khaki & sreelekha – I like your style of advertising your acievement of being ISO certified as IDIOTS. sree babes – it was the Chief Secretary who let out the immature speculative statemnt that the terrorist came by sea. Thank God he didn’t say that they came from MARS. That would have been orgasmically funny but would have takers. Khaki is too dumb to think so he cuts & pastes some article which talks about the concept of “rational bureaucracy”. In India we have an irrational boor – O – crazy which is busy licking the posteriors of their bosses. That is why they, like sree babes, come out with ideas that stink. They have the Khakis to clean up thereafter.
    You jokers should join a circus. You’ll feel at home with the clowns. Wait for some time. The Khakis will makes a spectacle of themselves duringt the investigations. Their policing is so good that they did not even have an inkling of hwta was going on in their area of jurisdiction. Too busy greasing their palms and criticising and nit picking the Army. Envy that some do work?

    Reply
96. 

    dev said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 21:06

    Khaki is a born..B******……So kick him.

    Reply
97. 

    dev said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 21:10

    @DAN……..These Rascals need to be kicked at a place where it hurts them most.They are shameless kunks.

    Reply
98. 

    alarm said on Thursday, November 27, 2008, 21:53

    The persons like menon are soiling the site with very civilised words. This shows that they are blind enough to accept the comments by others which are not in the line of their views. They don’t know that the abusive words thrown by them may be for their sisters, mothers and daughters who are also civillions. To get your dues by hook or by cook is your authority but accept the criticism of others. If you are a true soldier save the country from the IDIOT Terrorists. Don’t lick and chew the abusive words merely. Why defence intelligence is also failed? It is easy to blame each other and don’t take responsibility. Jai Hind

    Reply
99. 

    raj said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 6:37

    @Khakhi There is no question of parity of 2I/C with a Lt Col ‘coz 2I/Cs are earstwhile senior most Asst Commandant posted to a CPMF batallion.The designation Asst Comdt were renamed as Deputy Comdt in early 1990s but the 2I/C of a CPMF batallion continued to were a Ashoka emblem on his shoulder like an Army Major.After the 5th Pay commission the 2I/C or the senior most Deputy Comdt of a CPMF batallion was given a star in addition to the Ashoka emblem which he was already wearing on his shoulders, but that does not bring them at par with the Lt Cols ‘coz the additional star was an internal requirement of CPMF.A 2I/C was equivalent to a Major and continues to remain so.Tomorrow if a CPMF DIG commands a batallion (They are already commanding CRPF Group Centres)and the 2I/C is given one more star on his shoulder, that doesn’t make him equivalent to a Army Colonel………….!So, face the truth!

    Reply
100. 

     menon said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 8:09

     alarm – the problem with you people is that you persist on stupid statements. Now you want the Defence Intelligence to function. Are we like Pakistan where the ISI controls the Govt. Don’t argue for the sake of arguing and then expect sweet words of admonishment. Just by saying Jai Hind doen’t indicate patriotism. So don’t fool people.

     Reply
101. 

     dev said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 8:19

     Look at Mumbai operations………..Why defence forces are cheered by our countrymen?….because they are proud of them and have absolute faith in them…hope these Khaki’s and babus are taking note of that…….Stop saying bad words for our brave forces idiots.

     Reply
102. 

     dev said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 8:24

     @alarm the babu…….when some idiots malign our brave defence forces and throw shit at them…you clap…and now call Menon as spoilsport…….Wake up and shake your nuts.Stop preaching and mind your business you partial man/woman.

     Reply
103. 

     this this govt made army officer the groupB officer after vicpc said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 9:00

     @ to all the fauzis here jyada mat bolo you all are gulaam of army act you all did’nt have any choice other then going and clearing the muck created by netas and baboos now you all slaves of army act keep begging for pb4 which you will not get because beggers are not the choosers

     Reply
104. 

     sreelekha said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 12:38

     i AM PERTURBED BY THE WORDS USED BY DEV AND MENON WHICH REFLECTS THEIR UPBRINGING IN THE SOCIETY.IT IS REALLY NOT SURPRISING THE INSULT OUR ARMY FACING IN CONGO RAPING UNDERAGE GIRLS INVOVING IN ALL NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES.PLS REFER THE ARTICLE WRITTEN IN HINDUSTAN TIMES DATED 27 TH NOV 2008 BY RAHUL SINGH WERE THE CONGO GOVT HAD REQUESTED NOT TO INCREASE THE STENGTH OF INDIAN ARMY KEEPING IN CONSIDERATION OF THEIR NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES IN CONGO.I FELT THAT IT MAY DUE TO SOME MISUNDERSTNDINGS BUT NOW WITH THE WORDS USED BY MENON AND DEV IT REFLECTS THE ETHOS AND RESPECT 4 THE LADIES.MENON WAS ALSO VERY HARSH WITH Mrs SUSHMA SETH .HE IS DEVOID OF ALL IDEAS AND IT WOULD BE FAIR THAT HE SPEND SOME TIME READING NEWSPAPERS WERE IT IS CLEARLLY MENTIONED THAT THE MILLITANTS IN MUMBAI CAME BY SEA AND OUR COASTGUARD COMMANDED BY NAVY OFFICERS (EXCEPT FEW DIRECT ENTRY WHO DON’T HAVE ANY SAY AS THE CHIEF IS FROM NAVY) AND NAVY WERE NAPPING AS USUAL.WE SHOULD IDETIFY THAT THE NATION WAS TAKEN TO RANSOM BY FEW MILITANTS WHO CAME FROM THE SEA AND THE RESPONSE WAS PATHETIC.WHILE WATCHING T.V I FELT THAT THE MOVEMENT OF OUR FORCES L;ACK PROFFESIONALISM AND THIR WAS HALF HEARTED APPROACH.I APPRECIATE THE WAY J&K SOG & PAPA -2 USED TO OPERATE IN SRINAGAR.I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT NOBODY WANT TO INVOLVE THEMSELVES IN OPERATION WHEN THEY HAVE GALA GOOD TIME IN PEACE STATIONS.IT IS HIGH TIME THAT GOVT SHOULD DO THE SOUL SEARCHING AND TRY TO FIND OUT WAYS BY WHICH OUR FOCES ARE READDINNESS AROUND THE CLOCK.IT IS QUITE NATURAL THAT NOW LOT OF EUPHORIA WILL BE CREATED AND TRY TO ENCASH THE MISDEEDS OF COAST GUARD AND NAVY AS IT HAPPENED IN KARGIL.SHAME.. SHAME…SHAME..

     Reply
105. 

     sreelekha said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 12:49

     Sushant K. Singh and Rohit Pradhan ARTICE REPRODUSED:
     It is to the great credit of Indian civilian and military leaders and to our burgeoning democracy that the concept of civilian control of the military has been maintained in independent India. Unfortunately, its exact contours still remain unclear, leading to unavoidable incidents of civil-military confrontation.
     The Armed Forces argue that while they accept political control, “bureaucratic interference” is unacceptable. That much of the civilian bureaucracy—particularly the Indian Administrative Service—is seen as conniving and scheming, concerned only with furthering its parochial interests, further inflames the Armed Forces’ sense of injustice. As seen in the continuing imbroglio on the recommendations of the Sixth Pay Commission, it has resulted in a confrontation between the bureaucracy and the military brass.
     Illustration: Jayachandran / MintThe military’s attitude towards the civil service stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of its nature and role. German thinker Max Weber believed that bureaucratic organizations were an attempt to align the decision-making process to “calculable risks”, as rationality was inseparable part of the bureaucratic order. While Weber’s rather romanticized vision of bureaucracy has been modified by later-day thinkers, the concept of “rational bureaucracy” has continued relevance in an era of increasingly complex decision-making process. Bureaucrats act as a bridge between legislative intent and implementable policy—they are involved with all three functions of formal policymaking: agenda-setting, policy formulation and its implementation. The tasks of modern governance are too complex, technical and enormous to be left either to the legislature or political heads of departments. Moreover, the political executive and Parliament may lose sight of the broader and serious questions of national importance if they were to enter into the details of routine administration.
     Therefore, the argument that civilian control of military is restricted to politicians displays a blithe ignorance of basic tenets of public policy as well as the provisions of the Indian Constitution which provides an explicit constitutional basis to bureaucratic services—India’s parliamentary form of government is enmeshed intractably with the support of the civil bureaucracy.In a similar vein, the bureaucratic role in national defence planning cannot be overemphasized. A report by the Centre for Strategic and International Studies argues that the antagonistic attitude of the Armed Forces towards civilian bureaucracies reflects a failure to appreciate that civil professionals provide “deep expertise, institutional memory, continuity across administrations, and seasoned perspectives on policies and programs” to the defence department. National security requires action on multiple levels: military, diplomacy, internal security, economy and civic action. Therefore, it is plainly wrong to claim that national security can be restricted only to the military—rather, it requires support from bureaucrats working under multiple ministries.
     It’s wrong to say that national security can be restricted to the military only; it needs support from bureaucrats
     What is required is a fundamental review of the civil-military relationship based on the following premise: It must be recognized that the area of activity encompassing defence planning, defence preparedness, defence administration and defence management—in short, the discourse on national security—is distinct from the technical aspects of military operations and military training. The bureaucracy has no role to play in the latter while the military commanders, as distinct from military advisers, have no statutory powers in the former.
     The Arun Singh committee had recognized the need for closer cooperation between civil and military bureaucracies. In his proposal, the defence secretary would function as the “principal defence adviser” to the defence minister, while the chief of defence staff would function as the “principal military adviser”, and both would enjoy an equivalent status in terms of their working relationship.
     For service chiefs to be integrated in the institutionalized government set-up (as advocated by the Arun Singh committee), their role must be redefined as military advisers with no operational command of the Armed Forces. While the nomenclature of the erstwhile commanders-in-chief of the three defence services was changed to the respective service chiefs of staff in 1955, they continued to function as operational commanders of their services. In the US, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff (JCS) is the principal military adviser to the government. However, neither he nor other members of JCS exercise any military command over the forces. Rather than political machinations of bureaucrats, as alleged in many quarters, it is this failure to separate the advisory and executive functions of the chiefs of staff—whether by design or providence—which has denied the military brass a rightful place as professional military advisers to the Indian government.
     Indubitably, there have been instances where the administrative actions of the bureaucracy have adversely affected the operational readiness of the services. A strong political leadership, besides a definite charter of duties, is needed to prevent civil-military conflict.
     Rather than banking on the good fortune of possessing sagacious political and military leaders, the emphasis, as rightly highlighted in the Constitution, has to be on establishing institutionalized systems and processes for operational and administrative control of the Armed Forces by civil leadership. It is high time the Indian state displayed the political will to undertake structural reform of its higher defence set-up. This, besides fulfilling the dreams of our Constitution makers, will also provide the military leadership and bureaucracy their rightful place in formulating an integrated and coordinated national security strategy.Sushant K. Singh and Rohit Pradhan are associated with Pragati—The Indian National Interest Review, a publication on strategic affairs and national security. Comments are welcome at theirview@livemint.com

     Reply
106. 

     aam aadmi said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 12:52

     @ sreelekha first of all before opening your mouth just get your facts clear the security of all ports is totally under the port authorities. and why the hell the forces should show chatki just to aappease you? because you are watching TV.
     shame on you. watching Tv why do’nt you go yourself and sort out the millitants

     Reply
107. 

     sreelekha said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 13:02

     @aam aadmi YES YOU ARE RIGHT THAT THE SECURITY OF THE PORT IS OF PORT TRUST.THEREFORE ALL FACILITIES THE FORCES ARE ENJOING SHOULD BE BESTOWED TO PORT TRUST PEOPLE AND NAVY SHOULD BE SENT TO BOMB THE SHIPS IN PRETEXT OF PIRACY AS THEY HAVE THE GRUDGE THAT THEY DON’T GET GALLANTRY AS NOTHING GREAT HAPPENING IN SEA.IT WAS A LIFE TIME OPPORTUNITY GIVEN TO THEM WHEN THEY CAME BY SEA BUT ALAS THEY SCEWED IT UP.SHAME..SHAME…SHAME…

     Reply
108. 

     abcd said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 13:19

     i really do not understand what does cabine secretary mean by “With the armed forces insisting on a pay hike,”- armed forces are only asking for”RESTORATION OF PARITY THAT EXISTED PRIOR TO 6 PAY COMMISSION”- is Mr. Cab Sec that dumb? OR is he acting DUMB? OFCOURSE- when they have intentionalyy intorduced the anomaly will they own up their “GOODWORK”?

     Reply
109. 

     Dan said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 13:26

     Dear Sreelekha

     U WILL NEVER LEARN BEACUSE EITHER YOU GRUDGE THE BRAVES OR YOU ARE AN UNDERCONFICENT PERSON ____Only military victory of this Millinieum was 1971 Indo Pak War in which you have to be reminded India won. Jammu & Kashmir, Riots, Unnatural disasters and sit like in Mumbai one always calls Indian Armed forces. God Forbid when YOU , Your Wife Or Children or your parents are in situation think whom will you trust KHAKI, BABU Or the ARMY

     I repeat my comments because the nation has ubgratefuls like you MOST UNFORTUNATE But You need to read it again—–
     FOR YOUR INFORMATION

     —It was Coast guards or should I say LOst guards and bombay Dock police who were napping and not OGs or the Indian navy. First EDUCATE YOURSELF on the responsibilities and then comment. As far as Marine Comandos are concerned it is bettre that you aquaint yourself with the details. MARCOS DO NOT JUMP INTO ANYTHING WITHOUT THE AUTHORITY of MOD( Civilian Control)and they do not even advertise themselves . Also I think you have no idea about who comprises NSG Yes sir It is ARMY and a limited amount of BSF (who is equally great arm) but certainly not the POLIO I mean Police . Surprisingly it is the GOC Bombay and the NSG tackling the scene ( Well yes Bombay POlice is ensuring cover to NSG–Ask some knowledgeable guy as to what is giving cover). You must be an hell of an antinational element who even at times like this is busy taking POTSHOTS at Army –especially again when they WILL DELIVER. WEll I am sure you would be aware if responsibility of the Law and Order and immediate reaction to a contingency is That of maharashtra Polio I mean Police and not OGS——Sreelekha if you can’t think sane have some shame before voicing such low comments without knowledge on the Braves who give life to SAVE YOU AND YOUR BRETHEREN despite your pighedded ( My apologies) mindset–Shame on You

     SREELEKHA I AM REALLY ASHAMED THAT I LEFT A PLUSH MULTINATIONAL JOB AT DOUBLE THE SALARY TO JOIN ARMY TO PROTECT Anti Nationals like YOU

     Reply
110. 

     Dan said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 13:29

     SREEELEKHA I Even doubt that you must have been REJECTED BY an SSB or once aspired to join Armed Forces and now the Grapes have turned SOUR Just too bad but YOU actually never deserved to be part of it and while you talk of POrt Trust they would be sad to take our perks for they are actually making big bucks like you ILLEGALLY OFF COURSE————-SHAME THat we have Indians like you . SHAME

     Reply
111. 

     abc said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 13:36

     @dan you’ll not gain anything by cursing sreelekha and moreover if you are so happy showing yourself as bond just do that. public is very happy in clapping for you. but you must remember it the cab sec who will decide your fate so just keep quiet and do’nt for any parity because you may be hell of a bond but public will just clap for you and after that neither media nor the public will fight for your cause offcourse you can’t do any thing onyour own because you signed for slavery of the draconion act the armedforces act.

     Reply
112. 

     Rajeev said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 14:25

     The Army should be asked why the BSF was not withdrawn during OP Brasstacks and when the Army was in eyeball contact after the Parliament attack?
     What was its role during the 1971 Ops. What is the concept of Reorg BOPS.?
     Who determines the less threatened areas?
     Why were there no incursions in Kargil where BSF was deployed?
     If the Army felt that the area they had abandoned in Kargil was less threatened, why did the incursions occur in the areas the Army had vacated? Why did the army vacate the area if wasmore theatened and invite the incursions??
     If the area they vacated was less threatened why was the BSF not deployed there?
     they can not give this lop sided logic and get away with it by hoodwinking the politicians.
     How come the less threatened areas become more threatened the moment BSF digs the trenches and makes the bunkers so that teh Army can occupy them?
     Agreed BSF will not be used in an offensive role. Does the army only has an offensive role?
     I wonder which place they will launch the offensive in today’s scenario. Most of the time it performs a defensive role which is also done by BSF.
     Should it be paid more only because it can perform an offensive role ?
     In that case they should have separate pay for peace and war time.
     The last time they were forced to launch offensives in Kargil because they had let the enemy come right inside their house?

     How is izzat linked to money? Is that the reaon that we had the Army officers succumbing to the Tehalka sting operation?
     If it is a question of Izzat why is the army denying it to BSF? Is BSF not entitled to Izzat..?

     It is surprising that a 1.1 Million strong Army is comparing its role and tasks and pay packet with BSF which is less tha 3 lacs in numbers.
     Why is the Army so vehemently against the BSF getting any perks while they want allownaces for evrything.!!

     No one grudges them their Military pay… Why should they want the BSF not to get the Para Military allowance.
     Do we grudge them the free rations in kind, their medical facilities, the Form Ds, the separated family accomodation, the Army schools and colleges, the reservaion in jobs , free plots of land, the petrol pumps and canteens etc etc???

     This is a typical Dog in the Manger policy which shows the army is very poor light…

     Agreed the BSF plays a complementary role to the Army, but the hardships faced by BSF are no less than the Army. How can they justify that the Army jawan in the same bunker facing the same difficulties fighting teh same enemy and braving the same odds is entitled to better rations, better equipment and better pay just because he wears a green uniform and the BSF chap a khakhi uniform??
     What happened to the principle of equal pay for simlar jobs ?????

     Reply
113. 

     Dan said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 16:05

     @dan you’ll not gain anything by cursing sreelekha and moreover if you are so happy showing yourself as bond just do that. public is very happy in clapping for you. but you must remember it the cab sec who will decide your fate so just keep quiet and do’nt for any parity because you may be hell of a bond but public will just clap for you and after that neither media nor the public will fight for your cause offcourse you can’t do any thing onyour own because you signed for slavery of the draconion act the armedforces act.

     Dear abc I commented , what I felt right and I stand by it. I took up the job because I loved it and I really didn’t do it for Claps, i am responding now because I feel humilated at the treatment to all of fauj. And I think Cab sec has bitten more than he can chew this time and this is the beginning of someone’s nemeisis.

     Well Commenting to Rajesh BSF is a wonderful organisation and fun apart I have the greatest of the regards for it. I agree that it deserves all that the armed forces deserve but first of all it needs Cadre revision wherein the IPS needs to be removed from the BSF and Only BSF needs to be given upward mobility in the force which is truly their’s and all its achievements are also their’s. Rajesh I wonder if you have a contradiction to it I am ready for the debate

     Reply
114. 

     sreelekha said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 17:01

     DAN, WHY DON’T YOU SPEAK OF CONGO DEBACLE?WHY DON’T YOU RESPOND OF EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL HARDSHIP?WHY DON’T YOU FEEL FOR THE B.S.F JAWAN.ITBP,AND SSB WHO DO THE SIMILAR JOB BUT NOT BESTOWED THE CREDIT?WHY DON’T YOU PEOPLE ADMIT THAT KARGIL INSULT WAS THE MAKING OF ARMY WHERE THEY WERE BUSY BUILDING ZOO OF MOUNTAIN ANIMALS?WHY B.S.F IS NOT CREDITED FOR NO INTRUSION IN KARGIL WHEREAS THE SAME HAPPEND IN THE PLACES WERE ARMY WAS DEPLOYED?WHY NOT YOU PEOPLE APPRECIATE THE ROLE OF B.S.F IN 1971 WHERE A FORCE OF 05 YRS EXHIBITYED EXEMPLERY COURAGE AND MADE UTMOST SACRIFICES?PLS SPEAK OUT HOW MANY OFFICERS RETIRE IN ARMY/AIRFORCE/NAVY WITHOUT FIRING A SINGLE BULLET?CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT IF IT WAS THE INEFFICIENCY OF BUREOCRACY THAT Ex GENERAL MALLICK IS NOT COURT MARTIAL FOR THE KARGIL DEBACLE?YES, IT CAN HAPPEN ONLY IN INDIA WHERE YOU CAN HAVE RIGHT CONNECTION THEN YOU CAN GET AWAY BY FINDING SOME SCAPE GOAT.CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY THERE WAS MORE DEAD DURING OPS PARAKARAM WHILE NOT EVEN A SINGLE BULLET WASN’T FIRED FROM BOTH SIDES?IF THIS IS PART OF PREPARDNESS THEN WE HAVE TO GET SERIOUS ON THE ISSUE THAT THE EXERCISE OF ARMY IS ALL FARCE AND VIRTUALLY A PICNIC.I DEBATE ON THIS ISSUE BECAUSE THE DETAILS OF PERSSONAL SPEAKS IN REAL.NOWHERE IN HISTORY OF WAR YOU WILL FIND THAT IN MOVING THE FORCES TO THE BORDER A FORCE HAS TO FACE SUCH CASUALITY.SPEK MAN (?) SPEAK…SPEAK.WHY YOU DON’T RESPOND TO THE ISSUES AND ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO FAULT IN OTHERS.IT IS TRUE THAT IT IS HIGH TIME TO FIND OUT WHETHER THE RERUITMENT ARE RIGGED.

     Reply
115. 

     Rajeev said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 17:18

     i appreciate ur views Sreelekha, regarding the CPMF.

     Reply
116. 

     abc said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 17:24

     @sreelekha madam ji jao aur apne IPS bosses se puchho ki aap logon ki aisi durgat kyon ho rahi hai fauj ne aap ke behalf par IAS lobby se ladne ka theka thore hi le rakah hai. fauz to khud apne liye pichhle 40 saal se ladh rahi hai par har thenga mil jata hai

     Reply
117. 

     abcd said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 18:14

     Mr. Cabinet Secretary – IT MAY BE A DIFFICULT TASK. BUT ONE HAS TO UNDO THE MiSTAKE HIMSELF- HOWEVER DIFFICULT IT MAY BE” mR. cAB sEC SAYS – “So, to maintain the parity was pretty difficult. But still I think we did a pretty good job,” . yeah you have done a good job in maintaining parity??? is that a joke?

     Reply
118. 

     dev said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 18:23

     @Srilekha………………..This country’s independence speaks for itself you ugly swan.By writing in capitals does not make you a bit sensible.Once a ***** is always a*****………your complex about our forces is nothing but your pathetic existance on this planet.What a S*** P** u r.Go to hell.

     Reply
119. 

     dev said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 18:36

     @ Srilekha…peep into your upbringing and i am sure (you know what you are..we know you enough through your feelings expressed)…..your parents must be cursing the moment,you were concieved because you were an horible conception by any standards……don’t try to take sympathy of the gallary….you had been the most sub standard person after that stupid KHAKI around here.It is not difficult to make out as to what you must be doing on this planet…must be……****** *****.

     Reply
120. 

     dev said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 18:37

     @ Srilekha….You will get,what you give to others…PlUS some bonus too…rememeber this.

     Reply
121. 

     abcd said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 20:20

     ARMED FORCES want parity. Who said they are against Paramilitary Pay inlines of MSP.

     Reply
122. 

     menon said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 20:42

     sreeelekha – you are proving to be a shemale or you are a Khkai in disguise. Remember the whole fiasco started when a female started leaking (information) to her husband) who was a Khaki bossing over the CPO/PMF. Obvious with the kind of rants you publish here you could not be categorised a LADY by any standards. You think such a planned operation is done by sliding in by sea and sliding out. Boy are you dumb – like yourrants here. This was a well planned operation which would have been rehearsed & planned for at least six months during which time the Khakis and Babus like you were busy fleecing the public of their hard earned mony. A normal functional civil governance system should have at least detected this well in advance. No. So they came from Mars & you expect us to belive such rumours. Ladies don’t gossip and rumour monger like you. In the Glacier we had a Paki female who would come on the air like you to incite the soldiers. She was not a LADY by any yardstick. You remind me of her.

     Reply
123. 

     Dan said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 22:24

     SREELEKHA I THOUGHT YOU HAVE BRAINS BUT YOU CAN’T EVEN READ ENGLISH. I WONDER HOW DID YOU PASS YOUR UPSC EXAM unless U R RESERVATION TYPES. I RESPECT BSF AND HAVE SAID SO , THEY ARE GOOD AND BOTH THEIR OFFICERS AND JAWANS DESERVE ALL THEY ASK . COMMING ON TO THE ISSUES YOU HAVE RAISED

     (A) RAW ARC if YOU KNOW WHAT THESE ARE FAILED IN THE INT COLLECTION , ALSO IF YOU WOULD BE AWARE WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DEMANDS FOR THE SURVEILLANCE ASKED BY THE BRIGADIER OF THE MOUNTAIN DIVISION. AND THAT THE IAS WERE SITTING ON THE FILES FOR EVEN THE SNOW SCOOTERS THINKING THAT THESE ARE FOR JOYRIDES.

     (B) BSF IS NOT DEP[LOYED AT PLACES WHERE TEMPERATUTRE DROPS BELOW MINUS 50 DEG CELSIUS (THOUGH THEY ARE CAPABLE) ALSO I AM NOT TRYING TO BRING DISREPUTE BY TALKING OF BAGLADESH CITIZENS ENTERING IN INDIA IN CRORES CHANGING ASSAM’S DEMOGRAPHY FROM 25 % TO 78 %. ALSO NOT SPEAKING OF THE BATTALIONS CAUGHT IN DRUG SMUGGLING AT RAJASTHAN BORDER BECAUSE ONE BAD EGG DOES NOT MAKE A FORCE BAD AND I AM IN AGREEMENT THAT BSF IS A GREAT FORCE (C) ZOOS BY ARMY YES AND AFORESTATION DRIVES AND ORPHANAGES AND SADHBHAWANA MISSION IN J & K AND MANY MORE BECAUSE WE LOVE NATURE. (D) COURTMARTIAL OF A GEN –DON’T EVEN SPEAK ON ISSUES YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT BY THESE STANDARDS WE WILL HAVE TO HANG 60% OF IAS(LIKE MR GOSWAMI OF PATNA–FLOOD RELIEF FRAUD FAME)/IPS AND FEW MP (LIKE THE ONE WHO TRANSPORTED TERRORISTS ARMS AND AMMUNITION IN HIS OFFICIAL CAR AND IS CONVICTED BY THE HON’BLE COURT (D) NOT EVEN ONE OFFICER OR JAWAN RETIRES WITHOUT FIRING THOUSANDS REPEAT THOUSANDS OF BULLETS IN THEIR CARRER IN ARMY/AIR FORCE/NAVY–IN PRACTICE AND IN EXERCISES AS WELL ALL ARE SPECIALIST IN THEIR SKILL BE IT TANKS, SSMs (SURFACE TO SURFACE MISSILES–SIMPLY TAKE THEM TO BE ROCKETS FOOL), FLYING AIRCRAFTS, CAPTAINING SHIPS AND GOING UNDERWATER IN SUBMARINES OR FIGHTING IN SUB ZERO TEMP MINU 50 DEG CEL AND YES OFFICERS DO IT MORE. (E) YES WE DID HAVE A FEW CASUALTIES BECAUSE THE POLITICIANS ON THE ADVISE OF INTELLIGENT IAS TO DEPLOY THE FORCES AGAINST THE BETTER ADVISE OF THE PROFESSIONALS. AND MORON IF YOU COME AND WATCH YOU WILL BE DEAD BY EVEN WATCHING THE EXERCISE—THE OFFICER AND JAWAN WHO LAID DOWN THEIR LIFE FIGHTING MILITANTS/TERRORISTS IN TAJ HOTEL WERE FROM ARMY AND NOT IPS/IAS AND IF MUMBAI IS SAVED YOU KNOW WHOM TO THANK IF NOT GO TO THE STREETS OF MUMBAI AND ASK ANY REPEAT ANY MAN ON THE STREET YOU WILL HAVE YOUR ANSWER (E) AND ABOUT RIGGING IN RECRUITMENT WELL FOR YOUR INFORMATION IT IS SELECTION FOR COMMISIONING AND RECRUITMENT IS FOR JAWANS–(YOU SEEM TO BE A SSB REJECTEE OR AN EX JAWAN TO HOLD SUCH STRONG GRUDGE USING A FEMALE ALIAS OR A FEMALE MARRIED TO THESE CATEGORIES IF YOU DO NOT HAVE IDEA ABOUT A SUNJECT DO NOT OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND CONFIRM THAT YOUR ARE A STUPID UNINTELLIGENT MORON WHO IS BIASED ANTINATIONAL AND JUST IN CASE YOU ARE IN TROUBLE ANY TIME OR YOUR NEAR AND DEAR ONES ARE CAUGHT IN A SITUATION LIKE IN MUMBAI YOU KNOW WHOM TO CALL —WELL YES THESE PICKNICKING OFFICERS WHO DO NOT FIRE A BULLET WILL BE THERE TO SAVE YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES/ PLEASE IF YOU ARE A TRUE INDIAN AND HAVE STRONG BIASES PLEASE KEEP THEM BUT DON’T TELL THE WORLD THIS IS WHAT FEW INDIANS THINK OF THEIR ARMED FORCES . TERRORIST MAY NEXT TIME MAY DARE TO REACH YOUR HOUSE—————FRANKLY SPEAKING I AM ASHAMED HOW FEW BEMINDED SOULS UNDER THE ANONYMITY OF THE NET TAKE OUT THIER COMPLEXES-MOST UNFORTUNATE IF U R AN INDIAN

     Reply
124. 

     Dan said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 22:29

     SREELEKHA ATLEAST UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF YOUR NAME BEFORE WRTING ANYTHING BECAUSE YOUR PARENTS WOULD HAVE NAMED YOU THINKING OF SOMETHING . RESPECT YOUR PARENTS AND UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF YOUR NAME BEFORE WRITING

     Reply
125. 

     Rajeev said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 23:03

     Yes i agree fully with dan.excellent, but before saying anything about any other dept , tell for urs too. what about Sambha Spying case,Tehalka sting oprn,GCM of senior offr regularly on harrasement,m………n charges,what all Inf un its are doing in LOC in the name of kill, every body knows. Regarding all pers in NSG are from Army, come on, (everybody knows the percentage CPMF troops in that org.) so it is better, before saying any thing bad for others behave like gentleman.Regards.

     Reply
126. 

     alarm said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 23:25

     @menon & dev ISI is doing good for Pakistan which is bad for India. What about defence or indian intelligence which is totally failure? The zeal and bitterness with which you people are unnecessarily fighting here for raising your pay must be saved to fight with the terrorists and eneny during war. I am neither a babu nor a fauji, I am just an ordinary civilion who is earning his livilihood by himself. I used to shake my nuts at least once in two days but how it is helpful to dev to fulfill his demands? Merely writing here may not be sufficient to cab sec to accept the demands but there should be jenuine and right demand. Armed forces desrve good salary but it should not be comparative. I think in place of some useless allowance forces should get handsome salary which can fulfill the needs of their family. Ultimately one is serving for betterment of himself and his salary. My request is to use civilised words which donot malign our forces. Jai Hind

     Reply
127. 

     alarm said on Friday, November 28, 2008, 23:29

     @menon & dev ISI is doing good for Pakistan which is bad for India. What about defence or indian intelligence which is totally failure? The zeal and bitterness with which you people are unnecessarily fighting here for raising your pay must be saved to fight with the terrorists and eneny during war. I am neither a babu nor a fauji, I am just an ordinary civilion who is earning his livilihood by himself. I used to shake my nuts at least once in two days but how it is helpful to dev to fulfill his demands? Merely writing here may not be sufficient to cab sec to accept the demands but there should be jenuine and right demand. Armed forces desrve good salary but it should not be comparative. I think in place of some useless allowance forces should get handsome salary which can fulfill the needs of their family. Ultimately one is serving for betterment of himself and his family. My request is to use civilised words which donot malign our forces. Jai Hind

     Reply
128. 

     jayasurya said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 1:24

     @ Rajeev. Whom you are trying to fool?. CPMF personnel in NSG are only meant for VIP protection. The adventurous engagement like the one being carried out at Mumbai is by SAG (Special Action Group) of NSG which is 100 % army. You are not capable of doing what SAG does, at the most give cover to SAG which Mumbai police is giving to NSG (read SAG) in the present case. So dont try to encash the credit for the exemplary bravery shown by our soldiers from Indian Army. Perhaps you would even say Marine commandos are from cost guards. Please visit the NSG home page and educate yourself

     @ Alarm. You joker. Whom you are trying to fool?. You are stripping yourself in front everybody here but still say I am not naked. When you say that you are neither a babu nor a fauji, but still have anti-fauj sentiment, then you must be mentally challenged ‘ordinary citizen’ of this country or the loyal ‘ordinary citizen’ of pak/ chinese origin. Mentally stable ‘Ordinary citizens’ of this great country always respect their armed forces and wants their forces not only paid at par but better than babus. If you want to feel the popularity of AF among of the ordinary citizens, just go back couple of weeks before, wherein every opinion polls conducted in various print and visual media, atleast more than 75 % respondants supported the fauj for ‘better’ salaries. So dont live in darkness and say everything is black.

     Reply
129. 

     menon said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 8:20

     alarm – I agree with you that my language has been strong. I have spoken to many CPO/PMF officers and they have all told me that they have no objections since they have been elevated. In fact some of them are aghast at the way the blatant reduction in bracket has taken place after the SCPC. Such plants in most blogs are preplanned to distort the picture and the damage they do is far greater than the language. They are creating the shadow of doubt between uniformed personnel for their personnel gains. Very dangerous for the country. Something the ISI has been trying for years. In fact the main culprit is the IAS. I have spoken to State cadre Civil service officers and their grouse is much more than what is being planted here as objections by the PMFs. The CPOs/PMFs in fact are aghast that they are not even found fit to take over the Command of their parent organisation and are kept upto field level to do the dirty work. The State PSC cadre officers are appaled when they find that the IAS officers with half their service and one fourth their experience and knowledge are placed over them. These have been censured and the CPO/PMF /Military war is being higlighted by planted stories.

     Reply
130. 

     deepak said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 9:10

     @ RAJEEV AND ALL IGNORANT PEOPLE….

     either u r not educated or u dun wan to be educated there can be only two reasons for u… READ THIS ABT COMPOSITON OF nsg.. THIS IS FROM SITE OF NSG… AND SAG OF NSG ARE TOTALLY ARMY PERSONNEL SRG S ARE USED FOR VIP SECURITY

     ———————————————————-

     History

     The National Security Guard (NSG) was set up in 1984 as a Federal Contingency Deployment Force to tackle all facets of terrorism in the country. Thus the primary role of this Force is to combat terrorism in whatever form it may assume in areas where activity of terrorists assumes serious proportions, and the State Police and other Central Police Forces cannot cope up with the situation. The NSG is a Force specially equipped and trained to deal with specific situations and is therefore, to be used only in exceptional situations. The Force is not designed to undertake the functions of the State Police Forces or other Para Military Forces of the Union of India.

     The NSG was modelled on the pattern of the SAS of the UK and GSG-9 of Germany. It is a task-oriented Force and has two complementary elements in the form of the Special Action Group (SAG) comprising Army personnel and the Special Ranger Groups (SRG), comprising personnel drawn from the Central Para Military Forces / State Police Force. All the personnel are on deputation.

     Reply
131. 

     dev said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 9:37

     @Rajeev…….F**** U must be selling Papadd at Chaupati in mumbai……Your level points to that…….One more stupid added in the list of disgrunttled idiots.

     Reply
132. 

     pranab bain said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 10:34

     It is understood, If Mr Cabinet Secretary cannot achieve parity of pay for The Armed Forces,……..then can he think of PAY ENHANCEMENT???? He can , but will he ? Then the ststus,parity etc etc of the B’crats are effected , they are always willing to achieve sacrificing benefits of the Armed Forces but not their’s, good luck to you……

     Reply
133. 

     aam aadmi said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 10:47

     “If you want to feel the popularity of AF among of the ordinary citizens, just go back couple of weeks before, wherein every opinion polls conducted in various print and visual media, atleast more than 75 % respondants supported the fauj for ‘better’ salaries. So dont live in darkness and say everything is black.”

     @jayasurya Dear army is not going to fight elections. So the common public will just clap for you. it is the IAS lobby which will decide the fate of defense forces even netas and media also can not do anything for defense forces because netas has to eat this country like a cake and that they can do only with the help of baboos . so netas won’t dare to go against them .and the media can be given gag order. you army peoples are really very BHOLA. why ca’nt you see for the last 60 days media did not dare to speak even a single sentence for your PB4 issue and on the top of that the pranab da can not give anything to army because he can not antognise baboos. but he is just want to delay the matter till the time new govt is formed.

     so you all emotional fools keep fighting for this country and AAM AADMI will just clap for you and media will make you fool and in return you will just get few TAMGAS. Mind you just a SI can make even your col saheb wait outside thana for hours and col saheb has no authority on him.
     For whose country you are fighting

     Reply
134. 

     Harry said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 11:12

     As a serving Lt Col, I feel helpless at the utter humiliation heaped upon us by lowering our status by the SCPC and further betrayal by the Committee of Secretaries headed by Mr Chandrashekhar. I am angry at having been made to look like a beggar. I am ashamed at harbouring evil thoughts of killing all the babus. I pray that the PM tells us to our face that we don’t deserve better. That may help us to accept it as a fait accompli. But as Maj Sandeep has shown, once a soldier always a soldier. So, gentlemen, bash on regardless. Jai Hind

     Reply
135. 

     PRABHAKAR said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 11:47

     Well said Aam Admi.

     Reply
136. 

     dev said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 11:56

     @AAM AADAMI……………….I agree with you..but wait..these babus will be a silent spectators…….Defence forces will get what they deserve…kick that stupid SI………that is his stupid job………if he comes to a defence unit..he will be lost in a jungle….very minor issue this………Col sahab has to take nothing from that stupid fellow…if he behaves with a senior officer(all don’t do that way) …it speaks of his small head…..AN IPS will not behave that way……so dear that is not the issue at all….relax.

     Reply
137. 

     Rajeev said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 12:28

     i think dev u are not a GC otherwise u should not have used this lang.whatever u say about NSG , but reply to my all points, so it is better , put ur salient points for the knowledge of civilians, apart from saying F…..U. and by the way, Is papad selling a crime????

     Reply
138. 

     aam aadmi said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 12:51

     @dev aap log wastav mein bahut bhole ho pura desh aap sabko use karta hai aur aap log emotional fool banke sab kuchh karte rahteho Col saheb ko bhi civil mein hi rehna hai jangal mein nahi isliye wo SI bhi col saheb do nacha sakta hai. IPS to Gen saheb ko bhi 4 ghante wait karate hain col saheb to bahut chhoti cheeze hai.

     PB4 ko to aap log bhool hi jao IAS lobby bahut strong hai media tak kee boltee band kar dete hain pichhele 60 din se kisi media ne army ke issue ko touch bhee nahin kiya

     neta logon ki himmat nahin ki IAS lobby ki against kuchh kar saken akhir desh ko cake ki tarah khana hai to baboo logon ki madad chahyie

     Reply
139. 

     menon said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 14:31

     This site has a Trojan tracker.

     Reply
140. 

     Rajababu said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 14:55

     To All the wise cracks writing and escpecially the Chachi 420 Sreelekha!!

     Theres nothing to prove to anybody by the faujis and other services after seeing the Mumbai fiasco. People have seen everything live. Now i hope the postmortem is done properly else fingerpointing will commence like what Sreelekha is doing. Let me also say that its impossible to patrol the seas as conveniently as on Land. So lets not jump to conclusions on somebody sleeping over. Its convenient for any body to speak about every others professsion without even experiencing the same. This is what we Indians are good at be it politician or civilian etc. So friends stop clamouring for attention on the net. The entire world is watching.

     Reply
141. 

     dev said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 16:51

     @ aamaadami………..Forget about that SI dear.Apni galli mein kutta bhi sher hota hei…….i dont want to waste my time on such betuukki baat.Just wait and watch the strength of BABUs…u r also here and i am also here.I know the capabilities and potential of babus please..but wish not to highlight in a public forum.Many of them are in my relations please and hence won’t use any derogatory words for them.Defence forces demands will be met in full and very soon.

     Reply
142. 

     dev said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 16:53

     @ Rajeev….now u r trying to be modest……..and a GC..but should i tell you….it does not work.Once a ******* is always a *******.No point answering anything u said as you are talking nonsense.

     Reply
143. 

     Dan said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 20:01

     Dear all firstly a good blog http://thearmyguyspeaks.wordpress.com for you all and now for RAJESH

     Let me clarify.

     The NSG comprises of two groups. The Special Action Group (SAG) which handles situations such as Mumbai and other anti-terror, anti-hijack and hostage rescue activities and the Special Ranger Group (SRG) which basically deals with VIP security.

     The SAG in its entirety is constituted of Army personnel while the SRG comprises of personnel from the CPOs and also to a degree from the State Police Forces. Needless to say, the operation performed in Mumbai was by the SAG which purely comprises Army Personnel.

     On your other coments (a) Samba Spying case has been decided aginst the prosecution for your info after people have gone thru the ignonimity of being labelled as Gadar ( i am also aware of 7 BSF Bn case in 2006-07 and about the comandant of 155 Bn CRPF in Srinagar but would not like to comment becuase I have a lot of regartds for CPMFs who are our partners in the rigours especially BSF). (b) I have answered your querry about % of Army in NSG and the % of CPMFs. (c) By definition of PARAMILITARY Only Assam Rifles , Coast Guards and one more organisation (sans BSF and CRPF). (d) Like MUMBAI I do not think Armed Forces need to prove it as the BSF itself has a lot of success in past and present and doesn’t need to prove itself—Don’t let me doubt my own convictions of your organisation by pointing finger at the organisation I swear by and especially when both of us share common ethos. FOR OTHER PEOPLE LIKE SREELEKHA AND LIKE MINDED PEOPLE firstly check the proceedings on Mumbai Episode and few more given ahead

     I have copied from the blog pasted on 24 Nov 08 by an Officer My first school captain… From my first year of boarding school…. at Military School Chail…. Shwet Sir… (Joined the navy… Lt Cdr Shwet ..) laid down his life …after trying to save five sailors trapped on the INS Jalashwa, where a gas blast occurred.

     Gupta, 28, chose not to wait for a gas mask and leapt to the rescue of the sailors, who were inhaling poisonous hydrogen sulphide.

     In a email circulated by another officer with him…Lieutenant Ruchir Prasad, a survivor who last saw Gupta.
     “His last words still echo in my ears…. agar mask ka wait kiya to woh mar jayenge… aise hi chal,” “He jumped and so did I. I was the last man to see him conscious before I fell myself and in those 30 to 60 seconds we were down there, all I remember is how he showed utter disregard to his own safety.

     Me and fellow georgians are proud to have studied with him during our boarding school stay… Its a sad thing whenever sumthing like this happens… but well its even sadder when you know that person….

     His social networking profile still shows the status “Just Married”… I could not attend the ceremony…. I wish I could have.

     I wouldn’t want the Indian Naval Fraternity to grieve for Gupta sir but be proud of having known a soldier, who like God “planted his footsteps in the sea” in the finest traditions of the Indian Navy…

     And rest for us from the Georgian Fraternity.. Well the motto of the school is Enduring Spirit… and these sacrifices will only reaffirm our faith to do what we believe in…. and not hesitate to take the final steps when called upon to do so…

     In the true spirit of Georgian Brotherhood.. Different batches are taking up the cause… ‘02 Batch of the school has taked up to see the welfare of his parents… ‘05 is sponsoring a 75000 rupees scholarship in his names… that is one years fees and tuition… others plans are being finalised….

     We have been in a army lifestyle since we were in 4th standard… everyone knows the risks before signing up…. Military school , NDA , IMA , NEC , ISROC…. as we used to sing in school…. Never apart always together… We were georgians once..and shall be geoargians forever…. Those lines have a meaning… You will forever live on as a memory with us fellow Georgians….

     Thank you sir… for showing us the way…. Salutes….

     Reply
144. 

     Dan said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 20:04

     Copied from a Blog————-Rest in Peace Shwet Sir—pated on 24 Nov 08 by an Officer– For few BEE Minded Individuals Please do not humilate the MARTYRS

     My first school captain… From my first year of boarding school…. at Military School Chail…. Shwet Sir… (Joined the navy… Lt Cdr Shwet ..) laid down his life …after trying to save five sailors trapped on the INS Jalashwa, where a gas blast occurred.

     Gupta, 28, chose not to wait for a gas mask and leapt to the rescue of the sailors, who were inhaling poisonous hydrogen sulphide.

     In a email circulated by another officer with him…Lieutenant Ruchir Prasad, a survivor who last saw Gupta.
     “His last words still echo in my ears…. agar mask ka wait kiya to woh mar jayenge… aise hi chal,” “He jumped and so did I. I was the last man to see him conscious before I fell myself and in those 30 to 60 seconds we were down there, all I remember is how he showed utter disregard to his own safety.

     Me and fellow georgians are proud to have studied with him during our boarding school stay… Its a sad thing whenever sumthing like this happens… but well its even sadder when you know that person….

     His social networking profile still shows the status “Just Married”… I could not attend the ceremony…. I wish I could have.

     I wouldn’t want the Indian Naval Fraternity to grieve for Gupta sir but be proud of having known a soldier, who like God “planted his footsteps in the sea” in the finest traditions of the Indian Navy…

     And rest for us from the Georgian Fraternity.. Well the motto of the school is Enduring Spirit… and these sacrifices will only reaffirm our faith to do what we believe in…. and not hesitate to take the final steps when called upon to do so…

     In the true spirit of Georgian Brotherhood.. Different batches are taking up the cause… ‘02 Batch of the school has taked up to see the welfare of his parents… ‘05 is sponsoring a 75000 rupees scholarship in his names… that is one years fees and tuition… others plans are being finalised….

     We have been in a army lifestyle since we were in 4th standard… everyone knows the risks before signing up…. Military school , NDA , IMA , NEC , ISROC…. as we used to sing in school…. Never apart always together… We were georgians once..and shall be geoargians forever…. Those lines have a meaning… You will forever live on as a memory with us fellow Georgians….

     Thank you sir… for showing us the way…. Salutes….

     Reply
145. 

     Dan said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 20:06

     all from My fraternity I understand your anguish but however misguided the opinions on the blog let us maintain—the code of —-AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN Which You are————–For Others please read Man Of war by John Masters to know about a soldier

     Reply
146. 

     Rajeev said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 22:50

     Dan , thanx for replying my querry, but pse do not take name of any BN of any org, otherwise i will reciprocate in same way, as I had 03 tenures in LC (in ops control of Army.) I will not like to take the name of BN/Bde, otherwise I know each and everything ( kill, encounters, decoration etc)about ur org, so pse leave it here only, so that civilian should not think otherwise. U can fight for PB 4, We are not opposing, but why u are degrading other organisation. I will be happy if Armed forces will get their due, but let others also get, whatever they are aspiring. Regards.

     Reply
147. 

     Rajeev said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 23:24

     AGARTALA: Four persons, including three Border Security Force (BSF) personnel, were ambushed by National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT)
     militants at remote Jalabasti in Dhalai district of Tripura on Saturday.(today on 29 nov 2008)

     A group of NLFT ultras who were hiding in a jungle sprayed bullets on a group of road construction workers who were being escorted by BSF personnel to their project site, police said.

     While three BSF personnel died on the spot, two others, including a construction worker, sustained bullet injuries. The worker died on way to Dhalai district hospital.

     The construction company, MPCC, was engaged in road construction at Jalabasti-Garjanpasha area, 45 km away from Manikpur police station.

     The BSF man was stated to be out of danger by hospital authorities.

     A heavy contingent of BSF and Tripura State Rifles (TSR) rushed to the spot and launched a massive combing operation there.
     sorry friends, we are also fighting with militants/terrorism. Regards.

     Reply
148. 

     indian099 said on Saturday, November 29, 2008, 23:29

     @khaki and sreelekha

     if we have peple like khaki and sreelekha, we realy dont require a paki insider or an isi agent to demoralise a nation, .. these reservation b*****s have infiltrated every bastionof the country
     i think their exam fees are funded by the isi. they have taken uponthemselves to destroythe last bastionof indian democracy.. WHEN EVERY THING FAILS U FALL BACK ONME- THEINDIAN ARMED FORCES- SALUTATION S TOTHE GREAT MEN AND THEIR FAMILIES WHO GIVE THEIR TODAY FOR MAKING A BETTER TOMMORROW ( DESPITE HAVING GOONS LIKE KHAKI AND SREELEKHA IN IT)

     Reply
149. 

     Dan said on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 8:25

     THe world is sleeping when the braves of armed forces have given their blood for last four days to rescue the city of Mumbai and it is now I wonder where Mr Raj Thackery or Mr bala saheb is hiding—THery probably are some of the most selfish among the worst lot of Politicians who will make a statement when people have come to terms with the normality—But it is essential that we guys hold the pride of nation and do not fight as Indo Pak—remember we are Indians

     Reply
150. 

     Jumbo said on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 8:37

     I keep wondering why do these Jihadis keep getting killed at the LC in horrible condition. So much simpler for them to take a boat and head for some Indian coastal town and pay a visit to some seven star hotel and meet the high and mighty of India instead of coming across tough infantry soldiers on the boarder. I think they are getting wiser. It is much more fun to die in a seven star hotel after making mincemeat of rich.

     Reply
151. 

     aam aadmi said on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 11:20

     you peoples instead of cursing IAS/IPS go and curse your own GENs who just know how to keep begging. if NSG is all army how dare an IPS is heading them. Does that mean all your Gens are………….. and more over why did they accept army officers and jawans on deputation when you keep crying for shortage of officers or it is the special allowance for which you all are agree to all nonsense why can’t the army chief stand and say well done all army boy who are in NSG now who stops him to say this much.

     ARRE FAUZI LOGON PEHLE JAAKAR APNA KHUD KA GHAR THEEK KARO. IAS/IPS LOG BHI GOVT SERVICE MEIN HAIN PAR AAPKE KE GEN SAHEB LOGON KI TARAH DUBKE NAHIN REHTE.

     Reply
152. 

     this govt made army officers the group B officers said on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 11:45

     fauzi bhai logon this country is concerned about only the soldiers who die in action so YOU ALL IDIOT FAUZIS WHO THINK THAT the more you sweat in peace less you bleed in war STOP ALL THE BLOODY MONKEY JUMPING YOU DO just go and die atleast your family will get PB$

     Reply
153. 

     Rajababu said on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 11:57

     Instead of chest beating and maligning people/orgns on the net all the citizens should decide on the following ;- point no 1: Do we need armed forces/CPMFs/Police. if we need them then pay them without corporatising them/strings attcahed. There can be no discrimination in pay/previlages/ perks even if they are not in the front line as doing Admin jobs are only temporary and absolutely essential like any back office ops in an MNC. point no 2: Make the police more accountable and sysem transparent. their promotions and postings should be dependent on performance/public feedback in the areas posted and not seniors/politicians. Point no 3: there should be a provision to recall the politicians if they are not performing. this can be only done thro a mass movement. Point no 4: All the govt functions to be made transparent which means that the contracts/improvements would be decided by the citizens committeed in that particular constituency/Taluka. Point no 5: Eliminate the beauracracy that only acts like a red tape and noithing more. most of the modern countries have abandoned this concept and we are still in the good old British Raj days. This also applies to the Armed forces that still carries forward the legacies of the Raj in terms of Sahayaks, customs, traditions etc. We dont need the beaurocrats but only technocrats/economists in the Govt service. This is evident by the fact that the Govts are heaviliy dependent on the services of external consultants than the great beaurecrats. Some more will be posted late when somebody adds/comments on the same.

     Reply
154. 

     menon said on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 16:08

     If the Home Minister and the Home Secretary should be asked to resign after their inept handling of their offices, don’t you think the Defence Secretary should be sacked for playing an anti military role in the pay commission and subverting the morale of the armed forces.

     Reply
155. 

     Rajababu said on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 16:54

     To all the smart alecs/shadows posting on this blog. Can i ask this question as to who was accountable for this mumbai fiasco? Does it still be the perinneal bakras, namely Armed Forces/Police forces ?? To a certain extent i beleive the police are responsible but above all, the bigger fish like the Home ministers, Home secretary, IB,RAW etc are just their hands stating its a state subject/stray case. What a joke!! At any point the politicians/beauracracy always do what they best “Passing the Buck”. Its high time that they are made accountable and shown the door like in the services. In the services the punsihments are very severe like COI/Court martials/Dismissals etc. These kind of things do not apply to politicians and IAS conveniently get transferred or suspended only to come back after some time.

     I was shocked to hear the joker RR patil saying that such small things happen in Mumbai and there is nothing new. He went on to tell that there is no question of resigning. Hearing all this my blood starts boiling as to why this joker was not made to stand in front of the terrorists. Such insensitive people should not be given powers and be shot in full public view.

     Reply
156. 

     Rajababu said on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 16:57

     To all the smart alecs/shadows posting on this blog. Can i ask this question as to who was accountable for this mumbai fiasco? Does it still be the perinneal bakras, namely Armed Forces/Police forces ?? To a certain extent i beleive the police are responsible but above all, the bigger fish like the Home ministers, Home secretary, IB,RAW etc are washing off their hands stating its a state subject/stray case. What a joke!!. This was to be expected to happen after the operation were over . At any given point of time the politicians/beauracracy always do what they are best known for “Passing the Buck”. Its high time that they are made accountable and shown the door like in the services. In the services the punsihments are very severe like COI/Court martials/Dismissals etc. These kind of things do not apply to politicians and IAS conveniently get transferred or suspended only to come back after some time.

     I was shocked to hear the joker RR patil saying that such small things happen in Mumbai and there is nothing new. He went on to tell that there is no question of resigning. Hearing all this my blood starts boiling as to why this joker was not made to stand in front of the terrorists. Such insensitive people should not be given powers and be shot in full public view.

     Reply
157. 

     CONSCIENCE said on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 17:05

     If Only…:a thought provoking article by Sujan Dutta in Sunday, 30 November 2008 The telegraph ( http://epaper.telegraphindia.com/TT/TT/2008/11/30/index.shtml), page nine,Sunday, 30 November 2008, INSIGHT (http://epaper.telegraphindia.com/TT/TT/2008/11/30/index.shtml) .

     Some excerpts:

     …But one of the glaring problems with the Mumbai operations was the fact that there was no single authority. The actual operation inside the building was being conducted by the NSG. But on a single day during the operation there were so many senior officials at or in the venues that questions may be asked on who really was in charge. Mumbai police commissioner Hassan Ghaffor, Southern Army Commander LtGen Thamburaj, Maharastra DG Police A N Roy, Western Naval Commander Vice Admiral Jagjit Singh Bedi and NSG Director General J K Dutta are all of the same rank in the government”s warrant of precedence.

     Currently, there was a controversy raging in the administration on the question of parity that the Army has raised after the recommendations of the 6th pay commission. Should the situation warrant, the government will be hard pressed to determine who is more senior- the city Police commissioner or the Army commander.

     The Defence Ministry quietly issued a circular on Friday to the Army and Defence official present not to speak to the media. A war situation in any country demands a common chain of command and this was not in evidence.

     Technically after the Army was called in, the command should have been with the Area commander for Maharastra and Gujrat, MajGen R K Hooda.

     But the area command did not have maps of the buildings, not even of the two luxary hotels and the NSG was practically fighting blind.

     …….a total of 477 NSG commandos were flown to Mumbai, there was a lack of coordination in New Delhi.

     The NSG does not have its own airlift facility and the IAF had to get approval of senior authorities before an IL-76 was assigned to the NSG. The NSG had to wait wait for about two hours in the technical area of the Delhi airport………….in Mumbai the NSG men had to be transported in the public service BEST buses when they should have been airlifted…………………..

     WELL HERE IS THE LINK: http://epaper.telegraphindia.com/TT/TT/2008/11/30/index.shtml

     Reply
158. 

     vikshar said on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 23:30

     IMHO decisions involving recurring financial implication have to be taken objectively and on file. The justification and arguments have to be on record for consideration. The affected party has to do its homework and answer all questions asked satisfactorily to achieve desired result.Finally the COSC has to take up the issues convincingly to obtain desired result. Comparisons beyond a point are counterproductive and insinuations about others and a holier than thou attitude do not elicit admiration for the officer community. The decision is finally of the employer,i.e., the Govt of India. If one does not agree to the decision, one has the right to resign one’s commission stating the grievance.
     Having said that, I would like to draw attention to Maj Navdeep’s blog where he has lucidly brought out that the role of bureaucracy is largely overstated. As a first step we should look within to identify the origins of our problems.The answers will manifest themselves. Blaming is easy while being part of the solution is not so simple. It is my belief that the issues raised will be considered on merit and the decision of the Govt would be reasonable and acceptable.

     Reply
159. 

     vikshar said on Sunday, November 30, 2008, 23:37

     To the best of my knowledge the post of DG NSG was first offered to Army who did not accept it as the role was policing and in own country.The org is a proven force and a living example of joint working between Armed Forces and the Central Police Organisations.

     Reply
160. 

     menon said on Monday, December 1, 2008, 8:19

     Isn’t it weird that the Caninet secretary says that pay-parity-for-armed-forces-a-difficult-task. And, he has risen to the highest level of a bureaucrat.

     Compare this to the NSG Army commando (51 & 52 SAG are army pers on deputation) who says on TV that no task for the Nation is difficult. Despite all the abuses hurled upon them they still did not let down the Nation. The CaB Secy should hide his face in shame the next time he faces the Nation.

     Reply
161. 

     this govt made army officers the group B officers said on Monday, December 1, 2008, 8:44

     @ vikshar

     It clearly show that fauzis are emotional fools else today one Lt Gen would have projected the image of army in a better way POLICE WALE DG KO TO BOLTE HUE BHI SHARAM AA RAHI THI KI YE MAJ AUR COL LOG HAIN JO COMMANDO HAIN

     Reply
162. 

     young indian said on Monday, December 1, 2008, 17:36

     NSG (SAG) is for real men …Babus r only good at projecting themselfes on media. For the last two years Kerala govt is trying to sent one IPS officer for NSG training that too in SRG (vip security) but yet to find one willing and has the b@#ls to do it. so babus if you cant do it just get out of the way.

     Reply
163. 

     LISTEN said on Monday, December 1, 2008, 18:31

     Friends lets bury the hatchet and build a better, stronger India our dear motherland.
     I saw a very interesting article in economic times, although this are not my views but thought of sharing with you all.

     http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Rajrishi_Singhal_Time_to_listen/articleshow/3777306.cms .
     “…
     I was initially reluctant to write this letter to you. But, since The Economic Times Awards for Corporate Excellence have now been postponed, and your next trip to Mumbai is shrouded in uncertainty, thereby robbing our chance for a brief heart-to-heart, I felt that this would probably be the best way to catch your attention.

     With every newspaper leader writer churning out editorials full of admonishment, you might just like to read this column, by way of a pleasant diversion. This column also proposes to provide you with some counsel–unsolicited, as always.

     * The first piece of advice for you would be to revisit the sixth pay commission recommendations for the armed forces. This encompasses all associated issues, such as reduction in status as well as disparity in pay scales with civilian counterparts. True, there is some merit in the argument that, as a democracy, India needs to maintain its fine civilian-military balance. It’s our strength and that should be preserved. But, that same divide is now becoming a deep rift and could pose unspeakable dangers.

     At a time when the country’s security apparatus is crumbling under the weight of political and bureaucratic incompetence, the armed forces have emerged as the only reliable form of intervention, including providing expert help in pulling children out of wells and enforcing law and order in riot-torn areas. It is also true that the police force needs reforms badly, but till that happens, the military is our only source of hope, as the recent Mumbai attacks have shown.

     Therefore, it’s probably time to set right some of the wrongs perpetrated by an entrenched bureaucracy interested in consolidating its hold. And, what better way to do it than providing the soldiers with some dignity and honour through better pay and improved standing. Listen to your defence minister; he seems to understand the issues.

     * Talking of the police force, don’t you think now is the time to implement some long-pending reforms, such as appropriate training, modernisation of infrastructure, improved weaponry, practice of proper human relations? Here’s what you could do immediately: reduce the security detail for all ministers, including some of the criminals that the cops would like to see behind bars but have to salute because they’ve become politicians. What an irony! Any police force is raised to protect civilians from these criminals, but by a strange quirk known as Indian politics, the police end up saving the criminals from god-knows-who!

     * There’s another security-related issue you must nip in the bud: Maharashtra chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh is using this crisis as an opportunity to create another yet organisation in the state, this time a state version of the NSG. There are already multiple agencies in the state with the mandate of doing pretty much the same job. Before he can fly with his proposal—which is replete with doubtful motives—try to create zonal NSG units which will allow them to reach hot-spots faster, rather than flying half-way across the country. Their headquarters can remain in Manesar, Haryana.

     * As a gentleman, it is fitting that you did not make political capital out of ATS chief Hemant Karkare’s death. But, your opponents are made of very different material. The same party leaders, who, till a few days ago, were tearing Karkare’s credentials to shreds in the Sadhvi Pragya case, lost no time in turning him into their poster boy. They are appropriating his sacrifice for their party gains. It’s the most repulsive form of politics and you may need to find a dignified response to this one. But do it fast.

     * Your cabinet colleague Shivraj Patil finally had the good sense to resign. But, it might be too late, since you go to the polls in a few months and his resignation can be construed as a tacit admission of failure. There’s also a lesson in all this. If—and this is a big “if”—your party does get voted back to power six months later, even if it’s with the help of the Left Front, you should have some say in forming the new cabinet. I’ll leave it at this for now, since there are too many imponderables to consider.

     * Finally, you should get yourself a new speech writer. Till then, like a good editor, wield the red pen mercilessly whenever you see the words “dastardly” and “heinous”. These words have lost all meaning from over-use and misuse. People tend to switch to other channels whenever you utter these words on national television.

     Such words now routinely fail to penetrate the desensitised exterior; they bounce right off the skin without touching the right spots.

     The time to listen to the people is now. Hoping that you will not bristle at these suggestions, I remain,
     The Mocha Master

     p.s.: As the country’s CEO, you probably do not see all your emails, much less write them yourself. If you feel agitated, amused or aghast at the audacity of this column, please do reach for the keyboard and write to rajrishi.singhal@timesgroup.com …”

     http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Rajrishi_Singhal_Time_to_listen/articleshow/3777306.cms

     Reply
164. 

     Khaki said on Monday, December 1, 2008, 19:13

     hi dev and menon and other OGs. If by venting your anger against me and by calling names you can get what u want then please go ahead. I will help u in your choice of invectives. I have only pointed out certain misconceptions being entertained by our defence fraternity. We should not be downgrading each others organization . Whether Khaki or OG we are all doing a very specific and specialized job. I will not be making any more contribution to this site. Au revoir

     Reply
165. 

     menon said on Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 7:51

     Khaki – we have nothing against you and have a lot of respect for men in uniform, khaki or OG. However when people try to create a rift between us for the sake of promoting their interests we need to jointly counter it by not pulling each other down. The Army has never asked for the decline of other uniformed services because we understand the trying conditions under which we operate. Together we shall keep this nation safe. No hard feelings.

     Reply
166. 

     DECENCY said on Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 15:50

     Friends please dont be discourteous to each other, be it military or paramilitary or civil services. We are all working for our mother India.

     what utter disrespect http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/01mumterror-but-for-slain-major-not-even-a-dog-will-visit-his-house.htm?zcc=rl

     Long live our beloved country

     Reply
167. 

     krishnamurhy said on Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 9:00

     why dragingon to pay 6cpc pesion arrears for armed forces, it is high time after 9 months of 6cpc recomendations and implementations why finance ministry is sleeping, please pay arrears fast. why 40% now 60% in next year in 2009. pay arrears pension in full please!

     krishna,2nd worldwar old pensioner.

     Reply
168. 

     this govt made army officers the group B officers said on Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 11:45

     just for a second if you forget the remarks given by kerla CM can any tell me what is the AUKAAT of a major saheb in this country koi nahin poochhtta bechaaraa har jagah ragda jata hai

     Reply
169. 

     anil tomar said on Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 15:00

     we all must fight for the common intrests instead of bitting each other. It will bring more laurels for all the uniformed forcesnot only khakhi and OG. We should fight for the benefits as per the ground realities.

     Reply
170. 

     K M Rao said on Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 18:22

     It is unfortunate that the defence secretary ho was supposed to take care of the interest of the armed forces has ditched them badly. The false informations, misinterpretations and assumptions were apparent. As a result the morale of the armed forces is down in the dumps. They do not know how to express their anguish and disenchantment. Now the pay anomolies are least important for the politicians and babus. The babus have helped themselves. It is unfair to test the patience of service personnel. I hope PM will take some time to sort out the problems and punish the babus who misled the paycommission and the GOM.

     Reply
171. 

     PARVATI said on Thursday, December 4, 2008, 8:18

     IT IS HIGH TIME THE PRESIDENT, PRIME MINISTER AND DEFENCE MINISTER ACT AND UNDO THE INJUSTICE METED OUT TO DEFENCE PERSONNEL AND PENSIONERS AT THE BEHEST OF THE SOCALLED ELITE IAS LOBBY. GOM ENTRUSTED WITH THIS TASK DOESN’T FIND TIME. CASES OF INCOMETAX OFFICERS AND JUDGES PROJECTED MUCH LATER WERE SOLVED. IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT THE GOVT DOESN’T FIND TIME TO SOLVE PROBLEMS OF ARMED FORCES. GOD SAVE THE NATION

     Reply
172. 

     Rajeev said on Thursday, December 4, 2008, 13:21

     Subject: FAUJI BHAIYON KO GUSSA KYON AATHA HAI?

     The writer is a former banker who was with the SBI Group and DSP Merrill Lynch Ltd.

     This is one of the best article i have come across on the 6th CPC row.
     Deserves an Ovation..

     We need a permanent solution to this tussle over emoluments so that the armed forces need only confront the enemies of the nation, says T.R.Ramaswami

     In the continuing debate on pay scales for the armed forces, there has to be a serious and transparent effort to ensure that the country is not faced with an unnecessary civil-military confrontation. That effort will have to come from the netas, who are the real and true bosses of the armed forces and not the civil bureaucracy. A solution may lie in what follows. This country requires the best armed forces, the best police and the best civil service. In fact that is what the British ensured.. By best one means that a person chooses which service he wants as per his desires/capabilitie s and not based on the vast differential in prospects in the various services. How much differential is there? Take Maharashtra, one of the most parsimonious with police ranks thus still retaining some merit – the 1981 IPS batch have become 3-star generals, the 1987 are 2-star and the 1994 1-star.. In the army the corresponding years are 1972, 1975, 1979. – ie a
     differential of 10-15 years. While the differential is more with the IAS, the variance with the IPS is all the more glaring because both are uniformed services and the grades are “visible” on the shoulders.

     First some general aspects. Only the armed forces are a real profession – ie where you rise to the top only by joining at the bottom. We have had professors of economics become Finance Secretaries or even Governors of RBI. We have any number of MBBSs, engineers, MBAs, in the police force though what their qualifications lend to their jobs is a moot point. You can join at any level in the civil service, except Cabinet Secretary. A civil servant can move from Animal Husbandry to Civil Aviation to Fertilisers to Steel to yes, unfortunately, even to Defence.. But the army never asks for Brigade Commanders or a Commandant of the Army War College or even Director General Military Intelligence, even from RAW or IB. Army officers can and have moved into organizations like IB and RAW but it is never the other way round. MBBS and Law graduates are only in the Medical or JAG Corps and do nothing beyond their narrow areas. Every Army Chief – in any army – has
     risen from being a commander of a platoon to company to battalion to brigade to division to corps to army. In fact the professionalism is so intense that no non-armoured corps officer ever commands an armoured formation – first and possibly only exception in world military history – General K. Sunderji. Perhaps it is this outstanding professionalism that irks the civil services..

     Next, one must note the rigidity and steep pyramid of the army’s rank structure. In the civil services any post is fungible with any grade based on political expediency and the desires of the service. For example I know of one case where one department downgraded one post in another state and up-graded one in Mumbai just to enable someone continue in Mumbai after promotion! You can’t fool around like this in the armed forces. A very good Brigadier cannot be made a Major-General and continue as brigade commander. There has to be a clear vacancy for a Major General and even then there may be others better than him. Further the top five ranks in the army comprise only 10% of the officer strength. Contrast this with the civil services where entire batches become Joint Secretaries.

     Even the meaning of the word “merit” is vastly different in the army and the civil services. Some years back an officer of the Maharashtra cadre claimed that he should be the Chief Secretary as he was first in the merit list. Which merit list? At the time of entry more than 35 years before! The fact is that this is how merit is decided in the IAS and IPS. Every time a batch gets promoted the inter-se merit is still retained as at the time of entry. In other words if you are first in a batch at the time of entry, then as long as you get promoted, you continue to remain first! This is like someone in the army claiming that he should become chief because he got the Sword of Honour at the IMA. Even a Param Vir Chakra does not count for promotion, assuming that you are still alive. In the armed forces, merit is a continuous process – each time a batch is promoted the merit list is redrawn according to your performance in all the previous assignments with
     additional weightage given not only to the last one but also to your suitability for the next one. Thus if you are a Brigade Commander and found fit to become a Major General, you may not get a division because others have been found better to head a division. That effectively puts an end to your promotion to Lt. General.

     The compensation package must therefore address all the above issues. In each service, anyone must get the same total compensation by the time he reaches the ‘mode rank’ of his service. “Mode” is a statistical term – the value where the maximum number of variables fall. In the IAS normally everyone reaches Director and in the IPS it is DIG. In the army, given the aforementioned rank and grade rigidities and pyramidical structure, the mode rank cannot exceed Colonel. Thus a Colonel’s gross career earnings (not salary scales alone) must be at par with that of a Director. But remember that a Colonel retires at 54, but every babu from peon to Secretary at 60 regardless of performance. Further, it takes 16-18 years to become a Colonel whereas in that time an IAS officer reaches the next higher grade of Joint Secretary, which is considered equal to a Major General. These aspects and others – like postings in non-family stations – must be addressed while
     fixing the overall pay scales of Colonel and below. Thereafter a Brigadier will be made equal to a Joint Secretary, a Major-General to an Additional Secretary and a Lt. General to a Secretary. The Army Commanders deserve a new rank – Colonel General – and should be above a Secretary but below Cabinet Secretary. The equalization takes place at the level of Cabinet Secretary and Army Chief. If this is financially a problem I have another solution. Without increasing the armed forces’ scales, reduce the scales of the IAS and IPS till they too have 20% shortage. Done? Even India ’s corruption index will go down.

     If the above is accepted in principle, there is a good case to review the number of posts above Colonel. Senior ranks in the armed forces have become devalued with more and more posts being created. But the same pruning exercise is necessary in the IAS and more so in the IPS, where Directors General in some states are re-writing police manuals – one is doing Volume I and another Volume II! Further the civil services have such facilities as “compulsory wait” – basically a picnic at taxpayers cost. And if you are not promoted or posted where you don’t want to go they seem able to take off on leave with much ease. In the army you will be court-martialled. Also find out how many are on study leave. The country cannot afford this.

     Let not someone say that the IAS and IPS exams are tougher and hence the quality of the officers better. An exam at the age of 24 has to be tougher than one at the age of 16. The taxpaying citizen is not interested in your essay/note writing capabilities or whether you know Cleopatra’s grandfather.. As a citizen I always see the army being called to hold the pants of the civil services and the police and never the other way round. That’s enough proof as to who is really more capable. Also recall the insensitive statements made by the IG Meerut in the Aarushi case and the Home Secretary after the blasts. Further, when the IAS and IPS hopefuls are sleeping, eating and studying, their school mates, who have joined the army, stand vigil on the borders to make it possible for them to do so.

     Remember that the armed forces can only fight for above the table pay. They can never compete with the civil services and definitely not with the police for the under the table variety.

     Finally, there is one supreme national necessity. The political class – not the bureaucracy – which represents the real civil supremacy better become more savvy on matters relating to the armed forces. Till then they are at the mercy of the civil service, who frequently play their own little war games. At ministerial level there are some very specialized departments – Finance, Railways, Security (Home), Foreign and Defence, where split second decisions are necessary. It is always possible to find netas savvy in finance, foreign relations and railways. Security has been addressed in getting a former IPS officer as NSA at the level of a MoS. Is it time that a professional is also brought into the Defence Ministry as MoS? The sooner the better. In fact this will be better than a CoDS because the armed forces will have someone not constrained by the Army Act or Article 33 of the Constitution. Of course the loudest howls will come from the babus. The
     netas must realize that a divide and rule policy cannot work where the country’s security is concerned. Recall 1962?

     Our army, already engaged in activities not core to their functions, including rescuing babies from borewells (!), should not have to engage in civil wars over their pay scales…… …So???????????????????. Still fighting each other. Regards,

     Reply
173. 

     M.Prabhakar said on Thursday, December 4, 2008, 14:57

     The way GOI treats its soldiers and defence pensioners is nothing short of CRUEL. The defence pensioners are yet to get the revised pension (which is ofcourse peanut) and arrears thereon. The babus have been paid long back. The core issue regarding Lt.Col and Sergeants Pay Band is yet not settled. Our netas are busy doing politics in the aftermath of terrorist attack. They are stupid to the level of taking no decisions at all. They should have completed carpet bombing of POK and demolishing the training camps existing therein by now. No decision. They should have announced granting of PB-4 to Lt. Cols and PB-2 to Sergeant and equivalent as an appreciation of their sacrifice by now. Again no decision. What answer to give to this comment?………………nothing………… even then there is no decision. GOD SAVE THIS COUNTRY FROM THE CLUTCHES OF NETAS AND BABUS.

     Reply
174. 

     Rijul said on Thursday, December 4, 2008, 23:56

     Lt Col has become time scale promotion now after AVS gift. It is no more selection so the value of Lt Col rank has decreased, That is how this all have started. Unreasonable demands can not be met. On one hand you ask parity and better than IAS and on the other hand you deny your fellow officers of some cadre, even what has been given by pay commission. Most of the ignorant OGs do not know facts. It is matter of fact that your chief has withheld 6PC recomendations for certain sections out of frustration. Utter shame.. and greed.

     Reply
175. 

     K Gopalakrishnan said on Friday, December 5, 2008, 5:44

     Dear readers,
     As per my knowledge there is section in PM office to collect all datas wherein the PM is involved to collect it . The sane is to be screened by some leading babus then only the portion where their counterparts is not affected is being submitted to PM once in a yr or so. Since the baboos does not know the circumstance of linving of the armed forces, one could expect only such massacre from them. And netas they were such people only to look after their anomalies. As paper reports the BSE ans NSE have dropeed lower than ten thousand, the share holders has lost more than 50 lakh croes of rupees, where the money gone. Why the finance minister, SEBI chairman and reserve bank governor not resigned .
     Dring Devagowdas regime, Chidambaram was the finance minister from TMC headed by GK Mooppanar.Just remember that the Indian Bank become RED for more than Rs 2000 crores at that time . Chidambaram the then FM gave nbudjetory provision to make up the red. 75 percent of 2000 crores are from chennai itself. Try to read old news papers, the then FM issue verbal orders to give loan to the clients whose are recommended by GK Moopanar , The clients have that much of property to obtain such big loans.
     There was a scandal for more than 1000 crores in Bihar. The railway minister Lalaloo was the then CM of that state. Court cleared him from that scandal. OK but where the money goes.
     These are two minor examples, there are more exambes like Bofors,Kottorochi flew out of India under Narasimharaos regime, etc etc.
     If one of these cases is sorted out and the money is recovered there will be problem to solve our problems. Do u think these scandals are done by the ministers themself, no .These are done under the supervison of their secys under them.
     For one examble, one former secy of industrial secretariat send Rs 25000 thousand to a temple monthly in my area. Still he is giving such huge amount monthly. From where the mount comes.Think soldiers.
     Take ASC and AOC and some such org under our set up.Ommanding level and high er auth in that channel, kindly look into the wealth of that kind officers. Then u will know what kinds of corruption in going even in our organisation.
     Then as for PBOR no one will be there to here because our cry will not reach to the top. Even govt officials and the ministers who governing the nation think that oly officers are fighting forces.Now Lt cols have been upgraded on the plea that they are commanding units. What a lie Some twenty to twenty five yeras ago Cols are commading the unit, Lt Cols are second in commands to look after the (Most of them are in TS) DOs from his commaninding officer and draft proper reply to it. Why because most of Majors and Lt cols are senior than the Cols who commanded them.Jusrt find out it.So dear PBORs dont rely upon that ur problems will be sorted out .
     Until unless the unemployment in India is sorted out, the Govt or successive Govt will not worry as there have lot of youngsters volunteers to join the army. Such kind of situation never comes to India. So will be here only forever.
     with regards to all

     Reply
176. 

     PARVATI said on Friday, December 5, 2008, 8:45

     IT IS VERY DEPLORABLE THAT THE CASE OF ANAMOLIES IN PAY SCALES OF ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL IS YET TO BE DECIDED. UNLESS IT IS SOLVED AT THE EARLIEST
     THINGS WILL GO HAYWIRE AND IAS BABUS WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS MUDDLE AND THE GOM WHO ARE DRAGGING THE ISSUE SHOULD TAKE THE BLAME. IF THE POWERS THAT BE (PREZ, PM, RM, FIN MIN) ARE INTERESTED IN SECURITY AND SAFETY OF THE NATION THEY SHOULD WAKE UP EARLY AND GIVE THEIR DUE TO ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL. ENOUGH WITH DILUTION OF THEIR PAY AND STATUS.

     Reply
177. 

     Dan said on Friday, December 5, 2008, 12:47

     @Rajeev:- I was out and did not access the blog. I have utmost regards for BSF in which have many friends and have operated with them. So please donot for a second carry the impresion that I am belittling the organisation. It is just that I respect Indian armed forces that I can not digest when any one humilates fauj. Good Luck and godspeed

     Reply
178. 

     this govt made army officers the group B officers said on Friday, December 5, 2008, 17:16

     CARPET BOMBING ha ha ha ha ha ……this useless govt know with CLASS II army officers and CLASSIV jawans just 24 hr is the time required for pakistan to finish complete india. OR may be rahul baba or priyanka can save this country

     Reply
179. 

     Ravi Kothari said on Friday, December 5, 2008, 19:58

     A lot has been said on this forum and elsewhere on the Indian Police Service and the Army. The 6th CPC has been less than honest while visiting history. The historical tables on Page 73 have faced much flak. Other than IPS, another service having close links with the military has been the Indian Forest Service which forms the triumvirate of ‘All India Services’ alongwith the IAS and IPS. Military and Forest Service Officers have enjoyed close and cordial ties through the ages, maybe it has something to do with the close proximity of the IMA and FRI, at Doon. But here is how the salaries and pensions have compared through the Pay Coms with reference to the rank of Lt Col :
     III CPC

     BASIC PAY SCALE

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 1650-1800

     Lt Col : Rs 1750 – 1950

     BASIC PENSION

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 825

     Lt Col : Rs 875

     IV CPC

     BASIC PAY SCALE

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 4100-5300

     Lt Col : Rs 4700-5900

     BASIC PENSION

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 2050

     Lt Col : Rs 2350

     V CPC

     BASIC PAY SCALE

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 14300-18300

     Lt Col : Rs 15100-18700

     BASIC PENSION

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 7150

     Lt Col : Rs 7550

     VI CPC

     BASIC PAY SCALE

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 37400-67000 + Grade Pay Rs 8700

     Lt Col : Rs 15600-39100 + Grade Pay Rs 7600

     BASIC PENSION

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 23050

     Lt Col : Rs 17063

     Guess these were the tables that were required to be placed in the 6th CPC for a better idea of history !

     Reply
180. 

     PARVATI said on Friday, December 5, 2008, 20:58

     VERY GOOD ARTICLES INDEED BY MR RAJEEV, A BANKER AND RAVI KOTHARI; BOTH ARE EYE OPENERS AND COULD BE SEEN BY PM, (NO HELP OF IAS SECY IS REQUIRED FOR SUCH SIMPLE COMPARISON). HOPE GOOD SENSE WILL PREVAIL AND ACTION TAKEN SOON BOTH FOR PAY AND PENSIONS OF ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL.

     Reply
181. 

     Indian said on Friday, December 5, 2008, 22:03

     GOOD ARTICLE “HOW MUCH FOR BITING THE BULLET?”

     By: Soni Sangwan ( Metro News)

     When panicked hostages at Taj Mahal Hotel at the Gateway of India refused to budge even as NSG commandos came to escort them out, one young officer reassured them, “Follow me, I will take the first bullet.”

     This young man, probably a Captain or a Major of the Indian Army, draws a monthly salary that is, shockingly, less than what most of the hostages would have been spending on a single night’s room tariff at the hotel.

     Just to put things in perspective, a Major, like Maj Sandeep Unnikrishnan, who died combating the terrorists, was probably drawing a monthly salary of Rs. 24,000 to Rs. 28,000. With the new pay commission scales in place, this amount is likely to have gone up to about Rs 50,000. Coming down the line, the soldier, Naik Gajendra, who probably drawing a salary of mot more than Rs 15,000 a month in step in step with the new pay scales. A captain in the Indian Army gets only Rs 40,000 a month according to the new pay scales.

     And for those salaries, these young men, India’s finest, are willing to walk into a hotel where an undisclosed number of heavily armed terrorists are holed up; they are willing to put your safety before their own.

     While the battle against terrorists is a part of the job description of any army man, what is not a part of his laid down charter of duties is to combat with the bureaucracy of his own country to get a hike of even a few thousand rupees in his salary, the fact that it took media reports of three armed forces deciding to observe Black Diwali if their demands regarding pay Scale revisions are not met to get government to respond is telling. What is even more telling is the reality that despite assurances at the highest level and the setting up of a three member committee to address the pay commission anomalies in a time bound manner, no decision has come so far.

     As news about the NSG being called filtered out, an SMS began doing the rounds in defence circles; the SMS asked the question Why “Lower grade Majors and Lieutenant Colonels” were being sent in to resolve the situation when “better quality paramilitary personnel getting higher grade pay” were available for the job. The sarcasm reveals the deep sense of betrayal within the armed forces as also the operational problems the disparity in pay scales between IPS officers and the army is going to cause. While the Mumbai situation is unique, there are routine operations where the army works with the paramilitary, the disparity in pay scales gives superiority to IPS officers. The problems this can cause in operational situations are obvious. Imagine what would happen if Mumbai police commissioner pulled rank on Lt Gen V Thamburajan. Can you imagine the Taj, Oberoi or Nariman Bhawan being secured by the Mumbai Police alone?

     Do we still need the quibble over a few thousands when these brave men do not think twice before standing in front of a bullet for your safety?

     Reply
182. 

     satheesh said on Saturday, December 6, 2008, 14:04

     After having put up 20 years of service in army i have been promoted to havildar i always use to be proud of being mysely served in armed forces all the hard ships i have gone thru in my life couldnt be valued or judged by any of this so called beurocrat or any politicians ruling us on top of that the harassment i faced by the so called officer cadres (got selected only because of their fathers being in service ) have no basic Qualtts in them and want to go on with the culture of the britshers left behind as they are quite comfort in using those previlleges and dont want to get ammendments in any of the acts of armed forces to safe guard their own previlleges there by constrain jawans so as to take early retirements .

     On top of that the news of havaldars pension is to be lower than sepoy pension for the same year of service i dont know what to say its a clear disgrace and iam ashamed that i ihave put my valuable days of my life to safe gaurd this WROTTEN hipocrats.

     Reply
183. 

     PARVATI said on Sunday, December 7, 2008, 9:09

     WILL THE PM TAKE SOME TIME AND LOOK INTO THE FOUR CORE ISSUES OF THE ARMED FORCES?

     Reply
184. 

     menon said on Monday, December 8, 2008, 22:09

     satheesh – good try. Another trick to create a rift in the armed forces. What cheap levels you stoop to. You are a Babu in disguise trying to write like a Hav from the Army. No Fauji writes like this.

     Reply
185. 

     aam aadmi said on Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 10:05

     Beggars are not the choosers.

     you get what you Deserve.
     MAA BHI SIRF UUS BACHHE KO DUUDH PILAATI HAI JO ROTA HAI.

     Tell the defence officers if they want to sort out the 4 core issues they must not do ANYTHING when i say they must not do anything that meant THEY MUST NOT DO ANYTHING for example the navy did not do anything.So tell all defence officers to keep quite and they must not do anything.
     Means they must not do anything and sit keep quite only.

     and offcourse enjoy their life

     Reply
186. 

     SKG said on Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 12:30

     I HAD DISCOURAGED GENNEXT TO JOIN INDIAN ARMED FORCES AFTER MY EXPERINCE AS ONE OF THEM TILL 1999. NOW MY OBSERVATIONS/RRECOMMENDATIONS HAVE BEEN VINDICATED BY 6CPC & ITS CREATERS (CABINATE SECY.TYPE) WITH BACKING OF PM & SONIA GANDHI

     Reply
187. 

     SKG said on Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 13:36

     GOOD ARTICLE “HOW MUCH FOR BITING THE BULLET?”

     By using Low-paid person Majors/Havildars/Sepoy for internal security (responsibility of others), INDIA Inc save on cost even after their death (or sacrifice If happen) by paying less Pension (If applicable) or other monetary compensation which need no brain stomming to match parity and save the seniormost IAS officer the embrasshment.

     Reply
188. 

     mantu said on Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 13:38

     I FEEL THE GOVT HAS NO SHAME!DON’T THEY HAVE ANY SENSE OF TIME?EVEN THE THREE MOST INTELLEGENT AND HIGHLY SHREWED MINISTERS HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO ADHERE TO THE TIME FRAME GIVEN BY THE PRIME MINISTER TO SUBMIT A REPORT ON VERY SIMPLE 4 CORE ISSUES RAISED BY ARMED FORCES!ARE NOT THEY ANSWERABLE TO ANYONE?WILL SOMEONE PLEASE ASK THEM TO HURRY UP WITH WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY ON THE 4 CORE ISSUES!WHY THE SREVICE CHIEFS ARE NOW QUIET?IT SEEMS THE BUREUCRATS HAVE USED SOME BLACK MAGIC TO NUMB THEM !AND WHAT ABOUT THE MEDIA?WHY THEY ARE NOT ASKING THE GROUP OF MINISTERS AS TO WHEN WILL THEY SUBMIT THEIR REPORT!THIS IS NO ROCKET SCIENCE OR SOMETHING FOR WHICH THEY NEED THE ISI CHIEF TO COME TO INDIA TO HELP!PATIENCE OF THE MEN IN UNIFORM IS WEARING OUT FAST!IT SUITS MY DEAR COUNTRYMEN THAT ARMED FORCES REMAIN DEAF AND DUMB.BUT FOR THAT TO REMAINALL OF U HAVE TO TAKE THE CUDGEL ON THEIR BEHALF BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!GOD HELP THE COUNTRY AND MY DREA FELLOW COUNTRYMEN!

     Reply
189. 

     M.Prabhakar said on Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 14:27

     I agree with you satheesh. I too now feel ashamed of having spent the most valuable and prime time of my life (18-33 years of age) serving in defence of this country which is absolutely thankless to all of us. You know what is the amount of arrears am I going to get 8886/- that too after a long wait of 12 years. Is there a greater insult than this to a soldier who gave his entire youth to the cause of this nation!!!!

     Reply
190. 

     ajay said on Thursday, December 11, 2008, 15:55

     i concur with the issue. its a disillusion that we in defence have 2 fight out at each and every step and the govt/Pm is SLEPPING over it. its a shame the way the defence people are teated in their own country. well that is what it is. we have wasted out life and see how we are being fooled by the organisation.

     Reply
191. 

     SKG said on Thursday, December 11, 2008, 21:04

     YES HIGH TIME ALL WHO HAVE EXPERINCE OF SO CALLED ARMED FORCE MAKE A MISSION TO INFORM GENNEXT THE PRO-CONS SO THEY CAN USE THEIR PRIE TIME FOR BETTER PURPOSE AND NOT REGRET AT LATER STAGE. LET PEOPLE LIKE KHAKI & ALIKE COME FORWARD TO JOIN ARMED FORCE AND ENJOY THE PEKS OF BAT-MAN (ONLY IN ARMY) PROVIDED READY TO FACE KARGIL & SICHEN, NATHULA ETC.

     Reply
192. 

     Rajababu said on Friday, December 12, 2008, 19:15

     Dear all,

     Its such a shame that after all that hype and Hopla that the media is sitting tight without even uttering a word about the CPC. Why was the media so bombastic after 26/11 praising the armed forces etc and later on went silent ?? Is it because there was nothing sensational to report?? Do u feel that the media sides services?? I m sorry guys the media is using services to only sensationalise the issue. Once the issue becomes Thanda/no longer breaking news they are in recycle bin. So nobody is friend of the service except public to a certain extent fight ur own war. there are ways to do it i dont have to teach servicemen. If we dont fight it out now it will remain an anomaly till next pay commission. So stand up and fight

     Reply
193. 

     selva said on Friday, December 12, 2008, 19:28

     From the statement of the cab.sec. it becomes clear that the administration/the govt doesnt understand the root cause of this problem or they pretend to be so.
     the root cause of this problem is that the SPC unfortunately, without any justifiable reason recommend the multiplication factor for the old payscale S-25 as 2.85, while for others it recommended only 1.85. had it not been there this sixth pay commissions recommendation would have been excellent and acceptable by one and all.
     since S-25 was projected big into PB4 with starting pay of 39200, the cos itself found it as an anomaly and shifted couple of old scales(s-24) into PB4. now the demand has come from old 12000 scale people and lt.col to be shifted to PB4. once this is solved the next lower level people will demand and it will be prolonging till next pay commission is announced.

     hence, it is the root cause of this SPC that awarding PB4 status to old s-25 i.e 14300 scale with starting pay of 37400. evennow it is not too late to revert this problematic recommendation and start the pb4 from 30000 including the 12000 scale.

     Reply
194. 

     A true fouji said on Friday, December 12, 2008, 20:01

     There is nothing wrong in what Hav. Sateesh said. Its only because of the age old British methods followed in Defence. PBORs have no voice. But it is not the time to bring this all the issues now. Now all are required to be united to achieve the goal of so called parity.

     Reply
195. 

     PARVATI said on Saturday, December 13, 2008, 9:03

     NOW THAT GOVT IS JUBILANT OVER VICTORY IN ASSEMBLY POLLS IN DELHI, RAJASTHAN AND MIZORAM, THEY SHOULD NOW DEVOTE SOME TIME TO RESOLVE THE CORE ISSUES OF ARMED FORCES. (HOPE PM IS LISTENING)

     Reply
196. 

     yogee said on Saturday, December 13, 2008, 21:19

     The PM has gone deaf and the govt dumb.Probably thats why it is aking them so long. Just imagine the fate of a nation where even the PM words has got no value .His one month deadline is stretching like his age. Time for these guys to think of nation also.However the attendance at parliament for the shaheed of Dec 13th episode is an indicator of there real feelings for the shaheed n the soldiers.

     Reply
197. 

     rajpawariya said on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 18:50

     My humble request to Indian National Congress, specilly to Smt. Sonia Gandhi that she must again read Manifesto 2004 Lok sabha elections issued by her party, which I am reproducing for thei copnvenience, “Defence, National Security and Foreign Policy:-
     The Congress will ensure that all delays in the modernization of our armed forces are eliminated and that funds budgeted for modernization are, in fact, spent to the fullest. The Congress is committed to maintaining a credible nuclear weapons programme while at the same time it will evolve demonstrable and verifiable confidence-building measures with its nuclear neighbours. The welfare of ex-servicemen will occupy urgent attention and plans will he expeditiously prepared for involving them in crucial nation-building tasks. A new Department of Ex-Servicemen’s Welfare will be set up in the Ministry of Defence. The long-pending issue of one-rank, one-pension will once again be re examined and the satisfactory solution arrived at expeditiously.
     The Congress will make the National Security Council a professional and effective institution. It will immediately have a discussion in Parliament on the Subrahmanyam Committee report on Kargil and move resolutely to implement its recommendations to strengthen our intelligence networks.

     The Congress has been consistent, unlike the BJP, on the issue of dialogue with Pakistan on all issues including Jammu and Kashmir. It has always advocated formal and informal talks on the basis of the historic Shimla Agreement of 1972. At the same time, the Congress is firm in its view that Pakistan’s sponsorship of cross-border terrorism must end completely once and for all. If it continues, then the Indian state has the responsibility to protect its citizens.

     The Congress will expand trade and investment relations with China and with countries of East Asia. It will revive the country’s close ties with West Asia and other non-aligned countries. It will reaffirm our traditional bonds with countries like Russia, Japan and the European Union. It will engage the United States in scientific, technological, strategic and commercial cooperation. It will take the leadership to strengthen SAARC and launch major regional projects in areas like energy and water that will bring benefits to all countries of our region.”

     Reply
198. 

     fighter said on Sunday, December 14, 2008, 20:57

     A lot has been said on this forum and elsewhere on the Indian Police Service and the Army. The 6th CPC has been less than honest while visiting history. The historical tables on Page 73 have faced much flak. Other than IPS, another service having close links with the military has been the Indian Forest Service which forms the triumvirate of ‘All India Services’ alongwith the IAS and IPS. Military and Forest Service Officers have enjoyed close and cordial ties through the ages, maybe it has something to do with the close proximity of the IMA and FRI, at Doon. But here is how the salaries and pensions have compared through the Pay Coms with reference to the rank of Lt Col :
     III CPC

     BASIC PAY SCALE

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 1650-1800

     Lt Col : Rs 1750 – 1950

     BASIC PENSION

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 825

     Lt Col : Rs 875

     IV CPC

     BASIC PAY SCALE

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 4100-5300

     Lt Col : Rs 4700-5900

     BASIC PENSION

     Selection Grade of Indian Forest Service : Rs 2050

     Lt Col : Rs 2350

     ye sab bakwas hey why rank pay is added to lt col pay . no govt so far accepted rank pay for parity .
     so this article is highy misleading . same old wrong info campaign by army fellow .no body accepts ie court , dopt , pay com . mod , upsc , govt of india , etc etc rank pay as part of basic pay for parity . if lt col r senior than dir then everywhere why they work under dir rank officers . so all lt col dont think others r fool .

     Reply
199. 

     ajay said on Monday, December 15, 2008, 11:48

     hi so very body is praising the Army for good work done.
     SO why bring this un comfortable issue of 6PC in limelight. let Congress get busy with election win and BJP in 2 state win and the gneral public as usual cribbing. And let army enjoy its self. who bothers for ARMY at least not INDAINS. HAs any body thought why was ONLY army called in NOT BSF, CRPF and other CPO or for that matter not even POLICE.
     Army as usual is last saviour but least paid of all the Security agencies…

     Reply
200. 

     Dan said on Monday, December 15, 2008, 20:21

     Quoting from a friend:-

     1/2 boy 1/2 man

     The average age of the army man is 19 years.
     He is a short haired, tight-muscled kid who, under normal circumstances is considered by society as half man, half boy. Not yet dry behind the ears, not old enough to buy a beer, but old enough to die for his country. He never really cared much for work and he would rather wax his own car than wash his father’s, but he has never collected unemployment dole either.

     He’s a recent college graduate; he was probably an average student from one of the Kendriya Vidyalayas, pursued some form of sport activities, drives a ten year old jalopy, and has a steady girlfriend that either broke up with him when he left, or swears to be waiting when he returns from half a world away. He listens to rock and roll or hip -hop or country or gazals or swing and a 155mm howitzer.

     He is 5 or 7 kilos lighter now than when he was at home because he is working or fighting the insurgents or standing gaurd on the icy Himalayas from before dawn to well after dusk or he is at Mumbai engaging the terrorists. He has trouble spelling, thus letter writing is a pain for him, but he can field strip a rifle in 30 seconds and reassemble it in less time in the dark. He can recite to you the nomenclature of a machine gun or grenade launcher and use either one effectively if he must.

     He digs foxholes and latrines and can apply first aid like a professional.
     He can march until he is told to stop, or stop until he is told to march.
     He obeys orders instantly and without hesitation, but he is not without spirit or individual dignity. His pride and self-respect, he does not lack.

     He is self-sufficient.
     He has two sets of combat dress: he washes one and wears the other.
     He keeps his water bottle full and his feet dry.
     He sometimes forgets to brush his teeth, but never to clean his rifle. He can cook his own meals, mend his own clothes, and fix his own hurts.

     If you’re thirsty, he’ll share his water with you; if you are hungry, his food. He’ll even split his ammunition with you in the midst of battle when you run low.

     He has learned to use his hands like weapons and weapons like they were his hands.
     He can save your life – or take it, because that is his job.
     He will often do twice the work of a civilian, draw half the pay, and still find ironic humor in it all.
     He has seen more suffering and death than he should have in his short lifetime.

     He has wept in public and in private, for friends who have fallen in combat and is unashamed.

     He feels every note of the Jana Gana Mana vibrate through his body while at rigid attention, while tempering the burning desire to ’square-away’ those around him who haven’t bothered to stand, remove their hands from their pockets, or even stop talking.

     In an odd twist, day in and day out, far from home, he defends their right to be disrespectful.
     Just as did his Father, Grandfather, and Great-grandfather, he is paying the price for our freedom.

     Beardless or not, he is not a boy.
     He is your nation’s Fighting Man that has kept this country free and defended your right to Freedom. He has experienced deprivation and adversity, and has seen his buddies falling to bullets and maimed and blown.

     But,

     He has asked nothing in return, except our acknowledgement of his existence and understanding of his human needs.
     Remember him, always, for he has earned our respect and admiration with his blood.
     And now we even have women over there in danger, doing their part in this tradition of going to War when our nation calls us to do so.

     As you go to bed tonight, remember this shot. . ..
     A short lull, a little shade and a picture of loved ones in their helmets.

     Prayer wheel for our military… please don’t break it Please send this on after a short prayer.
     Prayer Wheel

     ‘Lord, hold our Indian Army in your loving hands.
     Protect them as they protect us.
     Bless them and their families for the selfless acts they perform
     for us in our time of need.
     Amen.’

     When you receive this, please stop for a moment and say a prayer
     for our soldier, sailors , and airmen , in all frontiers
     There is nothing attached…
     This can be very powerful…
     Of all the gifts you could give a Soldier, Sailor, or Airman,
     prayer is the very best one.

     I can’t break this one, sorry.
     Pass it on to everyone and pray for the Indian Soldier. And unlike your ‘Babus’ or ‘Netas’

     He will always do you proud!!!

     Reply
201. 

     Dan said on Monday, December 15, 2008, 20:22

     ASK YOUR SELF DO YOU KNOW THIS MAN???????

     Reply
202. 

     aam aadmi said on Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 10:56

     Even teachers got PB4 in 12 years.
     Bechaare fauzi bhai. they will never understand the realities. this country does not require fauz.

     Reply
203. 

     Dan said on Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 16:56

     With Vijay Diwas gone and CPC report for Teachers announced does anyone realises what it means to the morale of armed forces ???????

     Reply
204. 

     aam aadmi said on Friday, December 19, 2008, 11:35

     HAA HAA HAAA SUBKO PATAA HAI gen SAHEB LOGON MEIN DAM HI NAHIN HAI AUR AGAR NEECHE WALE BOLE TO DEFENSE ACT HAI NA UNKO RAGARNE KE LIYE. AIR FORCE– FIFTH PAY COMMISSION YAAD HAI NAA

     Reply
205. 

     rakesh said on Sunday, December 21, 2008, 18:03

     Paramilitary forces living on edge

     BHUBANESWAR, Dec 15, 2008 (Hindustan Times – McClatchy-Tribune Information Services via COMTEX) –
     A study by the IIM, Ahmedabad (IIM-A) on the working conditions of the central paramilitary forces has highlighted their stressful and dismal living conditions round the year as they don’t have a concept of peace posting like the armed forces. IIM-A submitted this study on “performance related incentives in government” to the Sixth Central Pay Commission. According to the study, the forces are required to put in long working hours (invariably 12-14 hours a day) and perform additional duties of guarding the camp without sufficient rest and respite in difficult terrains, hostile environments and face regular threat to life.

     The report said: “They always remain on call and have round-the-clock commitments throughout the year, without any consideration for leave, gazetted holidays, weekends, festivals, personal commitments and social obligations. This leads to very high levels of stress and imbalances. Repeated physical ailments in far-flung areas of deployment and absence of medical facilities for diseases like cerebral malaria, Hepatitis B, liver cirrhosis, chikungunya etc render working conditions hazardous. Stress compiled with unhygienic living conditions leads to high instances of chronic diseases and (premature) death among force personnel.” The study has further noted their social isolation after living in camps for a lifetime. Their unavailability for social and family commitments like marriages, functions, death etc of near and dear ones almost leads to their social boycott in the family and their society.

     The report further added: “The problem of social isolation is compounded by the fact that their entire career is spent in hard areas and they don’t have a concept of peace posting (as in the armed forces).”

     The report also mentions about their increased personal expenditure as they are forced to maintain two or more establishments due to separation from family and the need for education of their children.

     The report said: “He is forced to undertake journeys to home to sort out domestic exigencies, which cost him additional money. Regular need for communication with their families adds to their costs and it’s made worse by the fact that at many places of their deployment, they only have satellite phones which cost a fortune.”

     The IIM-A team further mentioned: “Separation from family is a serious problem. We met somebody who has not lived with his family for the past 37 years and said that ‘my children don’t recognise me’.”

     The report makes another important observation on the food provisions for the forces. It said: “Food is the most basic human need and the related provisions are widely perceived to be unfair and highly discriminatory which adversely affects their morale. Ration money paid out to force personnel is perceived to be inadequate, especially for their places of deployment where ration is always more expensive. Levy of income tax on this effectively reduces the amount of calories that money can buy.”

     Reply
206. 

     Ravi Kothari said on Monday, December 22, 2008, 20:37

     I think the Good Sense has prevailed.
     The Pay parity issue has been resolved as per NDTV JUST IN.
     Thanks to all the co – commentors who have put in their views in favour on this site and others.
     For the other all India Services no heart burns Let’s not comare each others domain and have that mentality of “Kup Manduk”

     Reply