Pay Panel – Central Police against elevation of rank of Lt.col

Tagged with: 6cpc, 6th cpc, 6th pay commission, central police, Lt.Col, Lt.col rank, pay panel, sixth pay commission

Friday, October 17, 2008

This article is posted in 6CPC Matters category and has 53 Comments so far.

Continuing their tug-of-war on recommendations of the Sixth Pay Commission report, central police organisations (CPOs) have strongly opposed some of the demands being made by the Armed Forces, including a proposal to elevate the rank of a Lieutenant Colonel above that of a commandant in central paramilitary forces (CPMFs).

In a memorandum submitted to Minister of External Affairs Pranab Mukherjee, who heads the committee to look into the grievances of the Armed Forces on the pay commission recommendations, the CPOs have argued that the demand of the Armed Forces was entirely unjustified and would result in operational difficulties if acceded to.

A delegation comprising officials from BSF, CRPF, ITBP and CISF met Mukherjee on Wednesday and explained why they were opposed to certain proposals, sources said. The delegation told the minister that the Armed Forces were using pressure tactics to get their demands met.

The Armed Forces have openly expressed their dissatisfaction with the pay commission recommendations and one of their demands has been to elevate the rank of a Lt Colonel above that of a commandant in a central police force. Both Lt Colonel and a commandant are placed as the commanding officer of a battalion but during times of joint operations, the Armed Forces commander takes precedence. The Armed Forces have used this to argue that a Lt Colonel should be treated as a higher rank.

Recent Posts

No related posts

You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.

You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

53 Responses to “Pay Panel – Central Police against elevation of rank of Lt.col”

alycia said on Friday, October 17, 2008, 17:52

The Armed forces always had the icing on the cake compared to the Paramilitary forces. For one, Service conditions of the Paramilitary forces are worse compared to the Armed forces deployed in the worst scenario. Two, the perks and allowances and facilities have always been in favour of the Armed forces. The Commandant in CPMF commands a Battalion; whereas a Lt.Col is either the Second-in Command to a Colonel, who is the Commandant of a Battalion or commands an element called a Company. It is illogical and ironical that the armed forces have equated their Lt. Col and equivalents to the Commandants in CPMF. Perhaps the winds will blow in favour of all those who need to be heard…………

Reply
kartik said on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:04

This is not being demanded by the cadre officer of CPMF. it is instigated by the officer above DIG level who are actually IPS officers.

All cadre officer please get your facts clear that any group A officer in indian govt get pb4 in 12-14 years of service which IPS is also getting. let us ask for the same for all officers of defence as well as cadre officers of CPMF.

Reply
rahul said on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 10:13

Good attempt, may be last one by vested quarters to ensure that Armed Forces could be denied there rightful dues. WEL DONE

Reply
menon said on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 10:57

The IAS is now trying to instigate the CPOs and PMF to pull down the Armed Forces. The Civil services should be clubbed as one and called the ICS (Indian Civil Services) which will include all services like the IAS, IPS, MES, DRDO, CPOs, PMF, IRS, IAAS, State PCS etc. They should be governed by one rule for Promotions, Service conditions etc.
Why have this discrimination where the IAS takes the cake and eats it too. In fact the Civil services should be job specific. For e.g. those dealing with civic services like the present District Administrator or Collectors as we like to call them should by in one stream where they join and serve till retirement in the Civic Services Stream. A State Cadre officer becomes a Collector after 25 years whereas an IAS officer becomes one in 13/14 years with lesser district administration experience and competence. Those in the Health Services cadre should join and retire in the same service. We should stop these fly by night IAS officers who flit around popping up as heads of different ministries with absolutely no subject knowledge
In fact the CPOs and PMFs are the dumping grounds for Senior IPS officers and hence the cadre officers do not get Senior promotions – yet they have represented against the up gradation of Lt Cols which clearly indicates that this is motivated by the civil bureaucrats and not the handy work of the poor PMF/CPOs who get filtered at DIG level.

Reply
TARUN said on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 11:03

The way this ugly battle is going on and mud slinging has become order of the day, one wonders why I opted to join Army.It appears that the Services have committed some heinous crime against the nation. It just took less than two days to change the verdict in case of JET,whereas in case of so called LAST LINE OF DEFENCE,it has become a joke.Why not scrap the institution of SERVICES and hand it over to CPOs/PMF and IAS.Give a golden hand-shake to OG,BLUE and WHITE so that they do not have to undergo this humiliation.

Reply
menon said on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 13:20

Very weird blog site.

gconnect.in – a community website for govt. officers?

When it is known that armed forces officers are forbidden from writing their views in public fora why have a blog which discusses Military topics with a one sided bureaucratic connived view of the Armed forces and what they should get.

Is this a doctored propaganda site?

P.S: This site has a trojan.

Reply
s said on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 13:34

Why lower the morale of Armed Forces by saying donot promote and thereby denying a just demand, say we in ParaMilitary are also equal and elevate us also to PB4. That is positive thinking.

Reply
alicia said on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 22:19

The crux here is why term someone ‘poor CPO/CPMF’ and then compare with an Organisation which is considered unequal to the OG/Blue or white…… this bitterness will prevail until sanity settles on the so called superior forces. The government should also see all the perks and allowances being paid to the armed forces… and the armed forces should also see beyond the PB. Minus the PB, what is there for the CPMF/Civil staffs….. ? The CPMFs’ Chiefs finally took cue from the 3 services chiefs and highlighted the concerns of the forces commanded by them. The CPMF officers who are hierarchy wise synonym to the Lt. cols can not equate themselves to their Commandants, but can definitely ask to elevate them to the Lt cols and this is perhaps what has been sought by them. Let the dust from the storm recede, then can one see the light of the day.

Reply
menon said on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 23:42

s said on Saturday, October 18, 2008, 13:34
Why lower the morale of Armed Forces by saying donot promote and thereby denying a just demand, say we in ParaMilitary are also equal and elevate us also to PB4. That is positive thinking.
You think the IAS/IPS want that? NO WAY . They don’t want any CPO/PMF rubbing shoulders with them. They may loose the top posts in CPOs/PMFs. They just want to stall the Army and subvert them.

Reply
dev said on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 12:35

what a dirty game being played by babus? Instigating police people to damage the rightful cause of defence forces.Some disguised CPMFs out here are questioning the upper hand given to LtCols.Why should not a Lt col get an upper hand on them? Police force sands no where near the defence forces in any department.The only sacred job on the planet is that of defence forces as they have never failed the motherland and hence even thought of comparison is a sin…….Has the same been said about these police people and babus..?Let me tell you……Defence forces will get what they deserve….irrespective of what the crowd barks….wait and watch.Proud of our defence forces.

Reply
dev said on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 12:39

THIS NATION KNOWS WHO STANDS WHERE……….LET THE POLICE REMAIN WHERE THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO BE……POLICE and DEFENCE FORCES…EQUALITY…?…what a stupid joke this.Even the police people know where they stand.

Reply
dev said on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 12:43

HAND OVER THE BORDERS/SEA/SKIES TO THESE POLICE WALAHA AND BABUS…….LET THE DEFENCE FORCES GO TO HELL?

Reply
Ashwani said on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 15:14

INDIA is the only country in the World which does not have any Armed Forces.India is role.being served by HArmed Services( H is silent)We do not require any Pak ,Bangla Desh or SIMIetc to lower the morale of our forces when we have trained our IAS to do the same .

Reply
delta said on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 19:16

“fut dalo aur shasan karo”.The colonial methods are time tested on the indian forces be it cpo/cpm or the armed forces.Creating a heirarchial structure to limit aspirations and reqmts of any fighting soldier is the sole aim.Everyone knows the high standards of discipline and the working culture existing in all fighting arms, The bureaocracy knows for sure ,a small slip up and they will overtake us.They have a complex and the easiest way is to fool and take advantage the system (read proximity to politicians)to retain this heirarcy.Figting arms have no time to think and plan political strategies cos they are busy only with their guns. Falling trap to the divide being CREATED amongst the soldiers is yet another attempt which we all must refrain.

Reply
menon said on Sunday, October 19, 2008, 20:26

In this context isn’t it better that a Defence and Allied Service officer be promoted as the Defence Secretary instead of an IAS officer? He would definitely be better than an IAS officer whose service profile may go in this order:
SDM
DC/DM
Handlooms, Textile and Khadi
BC, MBC and Minorities welfare
Youth welfare and Sports Development
Social Welfare and Nutritious Meal Programme
Religious Endowment
& FINALLY
DEFENCE SECRETARY – Kya baat hain!!
Of course it may be argued that reforms of Civil services is not in the purview – but – when it affects us and we must study the mind of the adversary and the games he plays. The roguish premeditated delegation of dissent by the IAS/IPS under the guise of CPOs/PMFs sent to the GoM when they feel that the GoM may take an independent view over their crafty inputs reeks of mischief.
I hope the GoM are not swayed.
If CPOs/PMFs are in the same basket why can’t the Defence Allied Service officers with more Military experience be the civilian military advisors to the Govt. rather than the IAS officer? Why should they be the pariahs in the civil services when they have more subject knowledge? Why make them a second rung cadre as compared to the IAS?

Reply
Adarsh said on Monday, October 20, 2008, 10:54

Hi all Military & Paramilitary friends,

Reply
Adarsh said on Monday, October 20, 2008, 11:22

Well, Can our army friends stop their cribbing ever. it appears that these days they are trained more for cribbing and to be greedy than fighting war which anyway happens only due to their sheer blunder. Be it China or kargil.Their budget for ads to promote Career in Armed forces is being misutilised to gratify media for misinformation campaign and mislead our sublime countrymen.At the cost of excheqer Army is running media campaigns to pressurise and blackmail the govt. Take the example of Kargill, which was creation of our own Army. They got Young Officers and men killed to glorify their mestirious victory fact about which were never revealed to common countrymen. They always talk about status in society and in this garb keep demanding and demanding to the extent that they have become parasites now. The British must be happy to see their legacy being alive without change even after 300 years , although their own army has gone sea changes.The kind of imperiallife ourarmyofficers still live should be opened for our poor country men to see for themself the so called torch bearer of patriotism.

Reply
Suri said on Monday, October 20, 2008, 17:56

Dear Adarsh,
If you feel that army allows one to lead the kind of life style that you are referring to and is so charming, I invite you to join the forces and have a feel for yourself. Mind you, all guys like you are living in a fools paradise thinking that such misinformation campaign against army/defence forces will deny justice to defence forces. No, Buddy, it will not be allowed to happen in this fashion. In fact, the public of this country is more aware than you and have much more respect for armed forces. In fact, it is not bacause of persons like you but because of our efficiency and working style/culture and ethos, a fauji ranks much high in the eyes of a common person in the Indian society even today. If you have doubts, Please go and ask your father.

Reply
dev said on Monday, October 20, 2008, 20:36

@adrash……Babu ji stop talking silly…or are u a policewalah?…….Defence forces never crib…they deliver…and what u do is known to whole nation.

Reply
Adarsh said on Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 21:24

Dear Dev n Suri, please come out of the imperialistic shell. Do not seek benefits at the cost of others and by misleading the common masses. your supriorty complex and lust for status and money is not going down well with the public and they have started feeling that our army is resorting to unionism and arms twisting tactics. You spell out what is your limit sothat I could also know what is yor priorty.

Reply
Ganesh said on Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 12:35

So much has been said, written and argued regarding the perceived injustice to services in the 6th CPC. One of the core issues that is Placing of Lt Col in PB 4 as their counterparts in CPOs have been placed higher is nothing but a canard that Army is keen on propagating. Lt Cols are in reality, neither commanding a battalion nor authorized to put on the rank badges of a Commandant (Col Equivalent)..Post implementation of the AVS Committee report most of the Lt Cols are actually Majors performing the duties of Company Commanders. Functionally it is the job of an Assistant Commandant ( Capt) in CPMFs. The point is, Lt Col is no more a selection grade post and it makes no sense in comparing it with selection grade post of counterparts in CPOs.Moreover in the 4th CPC commandant was having a basic of 4500 wheras for an army officer to reach that basic it would have taken 22 years in the running pay scale. The anomoly of seperate and slightly higher pay scale was only done in the 5th CPC which has now been rectified. If life in army is difficult, the officers are more than compensated by perks and privileges.The club facilities, free ration , travel concessions , canteen and reservation for ex servicemen and their wards are just a few of the numerous facilities given to them. This is all tax payers money including the tax paid by the so called “corrupt unpatriotic civilians and babus”. Has anyone ever said a word about improving the conditions of PBOR. It is still a colonial structure in our Army. What about BSF which is second to none when it comes to fighting for the nation? It is BSF which is guarding almost 6200 kms of IB including the treacherous terrain of Rann and Thar desert. BSF is also holding vigil in more than 1/3 of the LC. During the Kargil fiasco only BSF sector saw no vacation of posts and no incursions. BSF’s role in 1971 war was nothing short of exemplary but never got the recognition it deserved. BSF jawans are the unsung heroes who are working 24 X 7 with the barest minimum facilities and still not complaining. It is time our army stopped whining for more money like mercenaries.

Reply
Prahari said on Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 12:41

It is totally misleading to say that Lt Cols are commanding Battalions. Thay are actually commanding sub units. So the parity with Commandants do not exist. Since the senior most Lt Col is the second-in-command they can at the most compare themselves with the Second-in-command of CPMFs. Whatever they get should be automatically given to the counterparts in CPMFs ie Second-in Command

Reply
PK MEHRA said on Thursday, October 23, 2008, 21:22

hello to Ganesh
and
hell to OG

YOUR SCRIPT IS OUTSTANDING, AN EYE OPENER TO ALL WHO DONOT KNOW THE ACTUAL FACTS ABOUT LT. COL. KEEP IT UP.

Reply
COl VT Venkatesh(Retd) said on Friday, October 24, 2008, 10:12

Present COs are only acgting colonels & indeed are Lt Cols.Not only that Lt Cols are leading CI operations from the front flying aircraft,managing software development centres,managing Gun Positions,assiting in planning operations in highrer HQ etc etc.There is no comparable jobs in the PMFs.Hence it is not fair to compare Lt Cols with PMF officers at all.
I have not seen a single reporty of a commandant of a PMF force suffering a casualty in the recent past compared to so many casualties of Cols/Lt Cols in the Army side

Reply
rg kadam said on Friday, October 24, 2008, 10:23

It is a fact that the battalion is commanded by a lt col. Actually a lt col gets a acting col’s rank while commanding. I think anyone without knowing the reality shouldnot comment adversly on other services. All services all important and essential. Anyone commenting adversly on any services seems to be ignorant. Comments and strictures passed by para-military and military personnel against each other is the trick played by IAS and IPS cadre. Please realise IAS wants to prove their superirity over military and IPS over para-military. Gentelmen, understand the game. They are already succeding. Thank You.

Reply
dev said on Friday, October 24, 2008, 14:47

@ Ganesh….who told you that LtCols are not commanding units? 30% of the units in all three services are commanded by this rank and for you information this rank is the back bone of the forces as complete staff work and operational planning is done by this rank.Kindly do not try to bluff you way out here.

Reply
dev said on Friday, October 24, 2008, 14:48

@ Adarsh the babu…….Dear friend you are an established agent here else how can you talk so childish.

Reply
Adarsh said on Friday, October 24, 2008, 23:32

Dev, what are you.If you are an armyman your remark prove the kind of maturity you have. You all can play the card of propogonda to quench your greeds but the realty about our HOLY COW army will surface sooner or later. You can not befool eniter country for too long. How the things are kept away from public purview in the name of secrecy and national security is saving your graces otherwise the true face of our army will only dissappointthe whole nation. The recent report of Parliamentry committee on Defence regarding misuse of manpower proves that if slavery is alive in India it is in army. Please do not become parasites in the name of saviours.

Reply
alycia said on Saturday, October 25, 2008, 10:12

Please no personal mudslinging. This is a forum for all of us to share views and deliberate on issues which we consider are relevant for each of us. Lets be mean but not spiteful. its all a matter of the gov recognising the worth of each service … .OG/ Blues/ Whites/ Khakis.

Reply
Jai Bharati said on Saturday, October 25, 2008, 11:03

Adarsh, Pulling down your own defence services will not fill your pocket. Instead it indicates an anti nationlist streak. Our armed forces deserve the best and must be equated at all levels to the IAS as they are central govt A grade officers. Lt Cols must be put in PB4 to bring about parity.

Reply
Prahari said on Saturday, October 25, 2008, 12:17

Where is the comparison. Pl go through this. The CPMF officers were shortchanged in the 4th CPC. It is time to set it right.

CHART SHOWING PAY SCALES OF ARMY OFFICERS
(2ND LT. TO BRIG) AND CPMF OFFICERS (AC TO DIG)

4TH PAY COMMISSION 5TH PAY COMMISSION 6TH PAY COMMISSION
ARMY RANK PAY PAY RANK PAY BAND PAY G.P MSP
2ND LT. 2300-5100 200 Post of 2nd Lt. was abolished BY. 5TH CPC
LT. 2300-5100 200 8250-300-10050 400 15600-39100 5400 6000
CAPT. 2300-5100 400 9600-300-11400 800 “ 6600 6000
MAJ. 2300-5100 600 11600-325-14850 1200 “ 6600 6000
LT. COL 2300-5100 800 13500-400-17500 1600 “ 7600 6000
COL 2300-5100 1000 15100-450-17500 2000 37400-67000 8700 6000
BRIG 2300-5100 1200 16700-450-18050 2400 “ 8900 6000

CPMF BASIC PAY BASIC PAY BASIC PAY G/PAY
ASST. COMDT 2200-75-4000 8000-275-13500 15600-39100 5400
DY. COMDT 3000-4500 10000-325-15200 15600-39100 6600
SECOND IN COMD 4100-5300* 12000-375-16500 15600-39100 7600
COMDT 4500-5700 14300-400-18300 37400-67000 8700
DIG 5100-6300 16400-400-20900 37400-67000 8900

Reply
dev said on Saturday, October 25, 2008, 20:20

@ Prahari……………what is new in these copy pastes…we all know this……..your CPMFS will stay where they ought to be…..why make noise..?

Reply
dev said on Saturday, October 25, 2008, 20:29

@ Adarsh………………..got the taste of your own medicine……..how was that…? You forces baiter…you know nothing about forces….and you can’t work under those conditions because you need ***** to do that……..and people like you can only bring bad name to proud services by your absurd and unthoughtful reasoning.If defence forces were so stupid and corrupt as you have tried to paint them here…..you could have been stinking in pakistani jails.Shame on you to have stooped so low in you utterances against our proud forces………you really stink…and you do not deserve to be replied on…..so i take you as a big forces baiter here after…..some one planted to tarnish the image of our forces…..but should i tell you…..this whole nation knows it……keep stinking!

Reply
manoj said on Saturday, October 25, 2008, 23:48

1.on several blogs one defence officer writing as wind_swept has put link of US “Lawmaker backs pay parity, 3.5 percent raise for 2008”

2. Even our lawmakers have given parity to armed forces vis-a-vis civilians through sixth pay commission . Highest law protecting institution of our country that is Hon. Supreme Court of India in case of J P CHAURASIA & OTHERS VS Govt ( date of judgement 27 sep 1988),Pradip kr Dey vs union of india ( date of judgement 9 nov 2000), Indulal & others vs union of India (date of judgement 29 april 2002) has held that

“The equation of posts or equation of pay must be determined by expert bodies like PAY COMMISSION. They would be best judge to evaluate the nature of duties and responsibilities of posts. The pay commission ,which goes into the problem at great depth and happens to have a full picture before it, is the proper authority to decide upon this issue.”

3. As per para 2.3.13 on page no. 77 of sixth pay commission report Defence forces have demanded parity with civilian posts and grant of MSP.
Sixth pay commiission has accepted their demand of MSP and also has clearly defined the parity with civilian on grade pay basis. The pay commission in para 2.3.13 has clearly written that “Status of the Defence forces officers would be determined by the grade pay attached to their post as is the case with civilian. GOVT HAS ALSO ACCEPTED BOTH THESE RECOMMENDATIONS OF PAY COMMISSION WITHOUT ANY CHANGE.

4. Defence forces have declined to accept the cabinet decision which in turn may amount to declining to accept even Hon Supreme Court rulings.

5. Not a healthy trend for the country.

Reply
Deepak Sreevastava said on Sunday, October 26, 2008, 0:09

Dear all,
Let me add another viewpoint which every one has missed which has led to squabbling amongst all central govt Gp A officers except IAS who are watching with glee from the fence. Forget about everything. Just tell me is it unfair to ask for promotions at the same rate as that of IAS officers. Every one is supposed to have a specific job profile which cannot be compared. So pl do not question each other on that. I would want that all gp A officers should get the salary of a Joint Secretary/Maj Gen/IG at about 14 – 16 yrs of service. Relative superiority in order to maintain chain of command/administration should be there as it is prevalent now. That is to say A DM though junior to a Col of a regiment ( in terms of basic) but still retains the power to issue requests (or call it order) to the CO for deploying the army during riots. In joint army/paramilitary ops the army guy gets to call the shots not because he is superior but the situation demands it. So please…. police guys ask for what is equitable and do not try to bring down other Gp A services. This shows your crab mentality.
All gp A officers across the board have been shortchanged by IAS by lowering their pay ( as well as status) year after year. One wonders how much more elevation /edge they (IAS) want over other services? The country and the youth are already in the awe of the bureaucrats yet they feel so insecure.
The last point about Lt Col. A large no of Lt Col remain in the same rank for ever. Do they not deserve better pay even after 23- 24 yrs of service. Lt Col is also the fourth level of promotion. So a PB 4 is a must for them.
Few misconceptions about the perks of army officers. Free ration is worth 30/- day. Half of that goes to the maids. Sahayaks are officially given to most if not all gp A offciers. Sahayaks in the services have been given poor image by the hype. My dad who was in rlys used to get an employee on regular pay roll of Rly ( known as ardali/bunglow peon). CSD shopping is worth 1500/- per month and incidentally CSDs across the country are patronised by half the population of the area they are located in either directly or indirectly. The houses maintained by MES are termite infested etc and a lot of effort is undertaken in order to make them inhabitable. Houses for PBOR are not fit for human inhabitation. Army had to develop its educational institutions as a survival measure. Our children were denied admissions in schools of the city ( even in the central schols). Coz prinicipal knows very well how much he can “gain” from the army officer. Our children have no domicile status so no quota for them. The opportunities for them are worse than general quota students.
So think about it. Why army, are all Gp A officers getting the right deal from the Govt?

Reply
Deepak Sreevastava said on Sunday, October 26, 2008, 0:13

Pl ref my earlier comment. CSD shopping for Rs 1500/- means a saving of perhaps 200-300 rs per month . Not a fantastic perk every one would agree.

Reply
manoj said on Sunday, October 26, 2008, 14:25

After sixth pay commission Lt col 55000 pay+5000 technical pay+free ration+free accn.+free electricity+csd canteen facility+five star hotel like messes but highly subsidised+reservation in engg & medical college + concession vouchers that too sitting in peace stations in 90 % cases

whereas officers of paramilitary forces sitting at borders 70% of their life but getting very meagre pay and facilities. Is this demand of armed forces is justified in a poor country like india where 80 % people are poor.

Reply
Deepak Sreevastava said on Sunday, October 26, 2008, 18:43

Dear Manoj,
It seems you have not read my comments which appear just above yours. By all means pl ask for better pay for paramilitary officers but do not try to pull down others. Once again I will say perks in the army are not as rosy as they are made out to be.

Reply
dev said on Sunday, October 26, 2008, 19:23

@ Manoj………….very disgusted and desperate babu for sure.I have answered your curiosity in some other blog.Happy reading my son.

Reply
PK MEHRA said on Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 11:09

hello fighters,

i wish u all a very happy Diwali

Reply
ashwani said on Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 14:21

Keep on writingtill eternity.Do you really think any thing will come out from GOM. Netas and Babus are hand in glove with each other.Do you help the netas in winning elections?? Do you help them in scams??Are you of any help to them .in land scams , land encrochments,or other illegal favoures?? If the answer toeach .activity is NO.then
forget any relief coming from GOM. They will be advised by the same babus.

Let,s not forget that India is the only country in the world which does,nt have any Armed forces . India is having HHarmed forces (H is silent and therefore we are supposed be silent)

Happy Diwali

Reply
A patriotic soldier said on Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 13:19

Like many of my fellow servicemen I am saddened by the recent developments with regard to the pay scale recommendations of Lieut Colonels. I also dread to think of the serious repercussions that this could have in the long run for this great country of ours. Civilian officers equivalent in rank to Lt Cols drawing the same pay scales till now have been placed in Pay Band 4 where as Lt Cols have been demoted to Pay band 3. Is this the punishment that the nation has given them for serving the country with selfless devotion dignity and honour often paying with their own lives.!! They are really a demoralized lot because of this. Please remember that these 19000 Officers form the cutting edge and teeth of our fighting forces. Many of them may even put in their papers in utter disgust. You can not afford to loose these officers.

Do you know that the middle level officers of the Pakistani Forces (who incidentally are very well paid) are all very very pro Taliban and they are the ones to become the corps commanders and Service chiefs of the Pakistan Army Tomorrow…They are itching to wage war against India.. In such a scenario can you afford to have demoralized officers on our own side? Don’t you want Our Country to be in safe hands tomorrow ? the powers that be ……. Please do some thing for our servicemen now ….before it is too late…..The country owes a lot to them. Even if you give it to them, many of them may not be in a position to enjoy the fruits for long ……..as some of those would be making the supreme sacrifice in the coming months and years….defending our borders against the country’s enemies…….. working in those inhospitable snow clad mountains up north which the politicians and those ‘baboos’ working in the Air conditioned plush offices in North /SouthBlock have not seen and may never see in the future. Having worked in those treacherous areas for long I know what it is like to be there!

I request the PrimeMinister/ others in the group of ministers to please issue necessary orders to do the needful now!!!…….for tomorrow may be too late…..

Reply
dev said on Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 19:59

@Mehra………………thanks Mr Instigator…how was your Deewali…………..?God bless your thinking!

Reply
Sanjay said on Thursday, October 30, 2008, 21:01

I’ll request all elite people who compare Lt Col with PMF viz BSF or CRPF etc to visit following sites for referances – 1. http://crpf.nic.in/crp_f.htm 2. http://bsf.nic.in/structure.htm (a) ARMY —– One becomes Lt Col after 13 years of Commissioned service in 5cpc pay scale of 13500-400-17100/-. He continues in this rank till 26 years of service. One gets promoted to Col rank in Army after 17-18 years of service (pay scale 15100-450-17350). (b) BSF—- A Second-in-Command of BSF as per 5CPC is in pay scale of Rs 12000-375-16500/- and Commandant in pay scale of Rs 14300-400-18300/-. (c) CRPF—- One gets promoted to Second-in-Command in CRPF after 11 years of Service and Commandant after 15 years of Service. Still we tend to compare juniors with Seniors or Less pay scale slab of 5CPC to more par scale in 6CPC. Good go ahead.

Reply
A patriotic soldier said on Saturday, November 1, 2008, 8:27

what ever you all say folks………paramilitary will always remain under military……it’s always been like that…..it will always remain that way…..no matter how much of heart burn it causes to the “others”…….

Reply
M K Mahesh said on Monday, November 3, 2008, 18:59

There are three engineering colleges for Armed Forces. In any Engnieering College,
the principal/Director should have BTech Mtech PhD Qualification & 25-30 years Teaching Experince and atleast 10 years as Professor. In the armed forces Engg college a Lt Gen with only B Tech without any Teaching Expr in a degree level enginnering college will head the college Imagine what is the Std of education in these
colleges

Further a col/ Brig ( with grade pay of Rs 8700/8900)with a max M Tech qualification without any Teaching Expr in a degree level enginnering college will command on a professor (Grade pay Rs 11000 which is higher than the Grade pay of Maj gen)who has been selected by UPSC as per std and norms Aicte. It is highly insulting, dishonring, demotivating. In certain cases those Col/Brig were students in these colleges under the Professors. Some of the Service officers posted in these colleges are not capable of teaching and they are just taking 50-100 pds in a 5month sem( one fourth of the laod taken by Lect/Ap)
How can a a col/ Brig ( with grade pay of Rs 8700/8900)with a max M Tech qualification without any Teaching Expr in a degree level enginnering college will be senior in engg college
than a Prof with BTech Mtech PhD Qualification & 20-25 years Teaching Experince.Is there any answer/ Justice to highly qualified acadmecian in these colleges

Reply
Deepak said on Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 20:42

The Brig should be asked why the BSF was not withdrawn during OP Brasstacks and when the Army was in eyeball contact after the Parliament attack?
What was its role during the 1971 Ops. What is the concept of Reorg BOPS.?
Who determines the less threatened areas?
Why were there no incursions in Kargil where BSF was deployed?
If the Army felt that the area they had abandoned in Kargil was less threatened, why did the incursions occur in the areas the Army had vacated? Why did the army vacate the area if wasmore theatened and invite the incursions??
If the area they vacated was less threatened why was the BSF not deployed there?
they can not give this lop sided logic and get away with it by hoodwinking the politicians.
How come the less threatened areas become more threatened the moment BSF digs the trenches and makes the bunkers so that teh Army can occupy them?
Agreed BSF will not be used in an offensive role. Does the army only has an offensive role?
I wonder which place they will launch the offensive in today’s scenario. Most of the time it performs a defensive role which is also done by BSF.
Should it be paid more only because it can perform an offensive role ?
In that case they should have separate pay for peace and war time.
The last time they were forced to launch offensives in Kargil because they had let the enemy come right inside their house?

How is izzat linked to money? Is that the reaon that we had the Army officers succumbing to the Tehalka sting operation?
If it is a question of Izzat why is the army denying it to BSF? Is BSF not entitled to Izzat..?

It is surprising that a 1.1 Million strong Army is comparing its role and tasks and pay packet with BSF which is less tha 3 lacs in numbers.
Why is the Army so vehemently against the BSF getting any perks while they want allownaces for evrything.!!

No one grudges them their Military pay… Why should they want the BSF not to get the Para Military allowance.
Do we grudge them the free rations in kind, their medical facilities, the Form Ds, the separated family accomodation, the Army schools and colleges, the reservaion in jobs , free plots of land, the petrol pumps and canteens etc etc???

This is a typical Dog in the Manger policy which shows the army is very poor light…

Agreed the BSF plays a complementary role to the Army, but the hardships faced by BSF are no less than the Army. How can they justify that the Army jawan in the same bunker facing the same difficulties fighting teh same enemy and braving the same odds is entitled to better rations, better equipment and better pay just because he wears a green uniform and the BSF chap a khakhi uniform??
What happened to the principle of equal pay for simlar jobs .

The threatening tone in the last sentence of the note does not augur well for the Indian democracy and only reaffirms the views of Mr Kuldeep Nayar which the Brig has cleverly avoided to comment on.

Reply
ranawat said on Thursday, November 6, 2008, 8:38

The present situation has led to immense demoralization in the Armed Forces……a very dangerous trend indeed. ….these middle level officers – Lt Cols/Wg Cdrs/Cdrs are responsible for military assets worth several crores. …..something more than the entire annual budget of the paramilitary forces…..imagine a pilot flying a fighter plane worth 300 crores……we can not afford demoralisation to creap in….lest it leads to the creation of several more purohits( Lt col Purohit arrested for bomb blasts)….actually the ISI must be waiting for an opportunity like this……to lure demoralised officers with money…..The govt needs to act fast so that such things never never happen in this great country of ours

Reply
mantu said on Friday, November 7, 2008, 21:17

AFTER READING SO MANY BLOGS AND COMMENTS ABOUT ARMED FORCES I AM CONVINCED THAT WE DO NOT NEED AN ARMY.LET THE PARAMILITARY FORCES AND THE BABUS TAKE COMMAND.WE MUST DISBAND ARMY.LET THE MSG TRAVEL TO PAKISTAN AND CHINA AND TO ALL OUR GOOD NEIGHBOURS.BECAUSE WHEN THEY HEAR THE NEWS THEY NOT ONLY LAND UP TO HAVE A CUP OF COFFEE WITH OUR USELESS AND NEINCOUMPOUGH CHIEFS BUT ALSO WITH OUR BELOVED PRIME MINISTER AND DHOTI CLAD US EDUCATED STOOP OF (BIRLAS AND TATAS AND MAY BE ISIs) OF A FINANCE FINISTER.we better not talk about foreign minister,for he is busy cobbling the net with iran for a pipeline through our MOST LOVED COUNTRY PAKISTAN.WHERE IS THE DEADLINE OF OCT END FOR GIVING RECOMMENDATATION BY THE GROUP OF MINISTERS?NOBODY CAN QUESTION;LET THE ARMY BE DISBANDED SO THAT WE CAN (THE COMMON MEN) SEE THE FUN.LET PAKI OR CHINESE ROLL OVER NOT ONLY TO NORTH INDIA BUT RIGHT UPTO KANNYAKUMARI.THEN PROBABLY I WOULD DIE IN PEACE.WHAT A COUNTRY AND WHAT A HOPELESS SITUATION FOR SOMEONE WHO IS DEAF AND DUMB BUT WHOSE DUTIES ARE CALLED FOR EVEN TO EXTRACT A CHILD FROM A WELL!WHEN WE HAVE STATE POLICE,STATE RAPID ACTION FORCES,STATE ARMED BATALLIONS,CRPF,BSF,ITBP,ASSAM RIFLES,CISF SIB ,SIT SPL FORCES AND WHAT HAVE YOU TO DEFEND YOU MY BELOVED COUNTRYMEN WHY DO U NEED ARMY?BUT SORRY TO SAY YOU WILL BE SHORT CHANGED!90% OF THESE ORGANISATIONS ARE THERE TO PROTECT AND HELP BUREUCRATES AND POLITICIANS ONLY!THEY WILL CREATE PROBLEM AND ASK FOR ARMYs HELP!THE MAIN ROLE OF ARMY IS TO DEFEND THE COUNTRY FROM EXTERNAL AGGRESSION BUT THEY ARE BEING EXCLUSIVELY USED TO MAINTAIN LAW AND ORDER, WHETHER IT IS POLITICALLY CREATED PROBLEM OR CREATED BECAUSE OF MISHANDLING BY BABUS.OUR CHIEFS ARE WEAK AND THEY ARE SHOWN THE CARROT OF GOVERNERSHIP AND AMBASSADOR.SO THEY HAVE TO OBEY THE BABUs.but let us not fool ourselves!IT MAY NOT TAKE MUCH TIME TO CONVERT FROM STREAK TO FIRE .LET US NOT FOOL OURSELVES THAT THE BABUsAND POLITICIANS HAVE WON THE BATTLE WHICH WAS NEVER FOUGHT BY ONE SIDE!IF THE LT COLs DONOT FUNCTION EVERYTHING WILL COME TO A STANDSTILL!LET US NOT SEE THAT DAY WHICH IS NEARING FAST!LET US ASK THE GOVT TO DISBAND THE ARMY IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!

Reply
mantu said on Friday, November 7, 2008, 21:20

PLEASE POST IT AS TYPED

Reply
Dr Deepak Sreevastava said on Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 20:54

This mail is for all those immature bloggers who are pro police ( there is nothing with it) at the cost of armed forces, would do well to understand what follows in succeeding paras. The 1981 IPS batch have become 3-star generals, the 1987 are 2-star and the 1994 1-star.. In the army the corresponding years are 1972, 1975, 1979. – ie a differential of 10-15 years. The differential is more with the IAS. Army does not want superiority over police/bsf/itbp. we want this differential to be bridged and monetary compensation which comes with faster promotions.
AND mind you all you guys who are constantly spreading a canard against army so that army does not get its due, are well advised to do your own bidding and ask for better conditions for yourselves rather than trying to pull down your fellow comrades.
If in a family a father does not equally divide his property amomgst brothers, all brothers do not go to Dad and ask him to give less to one brother and still lesser to another.

Reply
army said on Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 20:00

some one rightly said ..the nation knows who stands where..the IAS or the defence forces…belive u me..call parvez on deputaion for 6 months..he will teach top indian army generals how to teach a lesson to the govt run by “beer cats” ( hope u all get wat i mean)…i.e give them a beer and take all cats out of them for once and for all..

Reply
B S Chowdhary said on Saturday, January 17, 2009, 13:14

The CPMF are indeed getting a raw deal.See the comparison: Job conditions_worst than that of Army,Living condition -worst ,Salary-much less,Perks-just donot match Army for the same job,Promotions-far less than the Army,Married life as compared to an Army Officer-practically Nil.Besides this they are better educated than their counter parts.Things like Rly warrants and form D not there.CPMF personnel go and do duty at even a higher altitude.Then why this discrimination.The reason I can conceive of is that they have no cadre officer at the top.Govt should seriously think and do justice.A Commandat is equivalent to a Col. and a Lt.Col is equivalent to a 2ic then where is the doubt.

Reply